robvalue
The Quranic reference was a response to the ISIS accusation, and to you thinking that Islam is forced by the sword.
These verses are what I believe and act upon; actually in practice they're pretty much peacful, I just don't seem to find a reason that would encourage me to force something on you, but let's be honest: the majority's voice is the way to go everywhere on earth today.
Democracy is all about that. If you lost the elections, then you lost your ruling position. I totally believe in that. So if I'm in the west, the majority there is secular, and their vote actually"OVERRIDE ME", I either like it or immigrate to somewhere else, Unlike what ISIS (and Sunni/Shia ideas) advocate, do you think I support the Salafi/Wahhabi beards that protest in Britain to force Islam on you??
robvalue :
How is that any different?
My comment to you on page 9; I literally said:
AtlasS33:
So the problem I have -as I have cited in that page- is with each and every secular person whom:
1) Accept Israel as a legitimate, legal state
2) Smile to the UN and the global system -and describe it as authentic- despite knowing that Israel exist.
It wasn't a broad generalization. One doesn't simply get to carry the sins of others.
robvalue:
Honestly, I don't care. Honestly, I have to say it, rob. Live like you wanna live, to each his way, to each their path, I know the truth of life on earth, apathy was rained on me a long time ago.
I don't have an "agenda". I just want this exam to end as fast as possible, without me adding more corruption or contributing in more evil.
As a shocking concept, the Quran states clearly that "it will never ever happen". That is, the unified one "Muslim land", where angry Musliims jump around with swords, forcing everybody to the faith:
Sura 11:
( 118 ) And if your Lord had willed, He could have made mankind one community; but they will not cease to differ.
( 119 ) Except whom your Lord has given mercy, and for that He created them. But the word of your Lord is to be fulfilled that, "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and men all together."
Sura 13:
( 31 ) And if there was any qur'an by which the mountains would be removed or the earth would be broken apart or the dead would be made to speak, but to Allah belongs the affair entirely. Then have those who believed not accepted that had Allah willed, He would have guided the people, all of them? And those who disbelieve do not cease to be struck, for what they have done, by calamity - or it will descend near their home - until there comes the promise of Allah. Indeed, Allah does not fail in [His] promise.
Technically, according to these verses, we can forget the global "Caliphate" that ISIS wants to make for a while. It will not come to be. God created us to differ, Sura 11 is so obvious, it is even a "literal" mention. We will always differ, because this life is no more than a test. And you have the right to differ.
Your right to differ is here:
Sura 35:
( 39 ) It is He who has made you successors upon the earth. And whoever disbelieves - upon him will be [the consequence of] his disbelief. And the disbelief of the disbelievers does not increase them in the sight of their Lord except in hatred; and the disbelief of the disbelievers does not increase them except in loss.
So, I don't have an agenda to rule. That's what I learned from the book of God, and that is why I think anarchy is the way, what's the point of governments anyhow? we will always differ, even if an illusion -like the UN, which is a vegetable- came to be. Rather, I prefer the term "community" or maybe "society".
In comparison to the Quran, secularism is a joke. The logic above, will prevent any war from even starting, homosexuals would've got their marriage rights thousands of years ago, atomic weapons would've never came to be, but hey, we were created to differ, after all. And God would intervene to cleanse what he doesn't want, didn't he annihilate the people of Sodom? but did anybody remove their rights to have sex with each other? did Lot -peace be upon him- or any other human, was allowed to hang them and kill them, like the bigot hypocrites in Saudi Arabia, Iran & ISIS do??, but who said we as humans, have the right to burn others??
Are secular countries giving any better example?
Oh no, smoking a joint can lead you to be electrocuted to death, nowadays.
Islam is not Christianity, Islam is not the Roman Catholic Church.
Secularism is the anti-dote of the Church. But Islam is something else.
Quote: You complained secularism was stopping you ruling with religion. What has the Quran got to do with that? Are you changing your position now? I'd be really happy if you did.
I don't know how you can rule with religion without forcing me to do things.
I'm using ISIS to show you what a ridiculous mess you are making of secularism. It's exactly the same thing.
The Quranic reference was a response to the ISIS accusation, and to you thinking that Islam is forced by the sword.
These verses are what I believe and act upon; actually in practice they're pretty much peacful, I just don't seem to find a reason that would encourage me to force something on you, but let's be honest: the majority's voice is the way to go everywhere on earth today.
Democracy is all about that. If you lost the elections, then you lost your ruling position. I totally believe in that. So if I'm in the west, the majority there is secular, and their vote actually"OVERRIDE ME", I either like it or immigrate to somewhere else, Unlike what ISIS (and Sunni/Shia ideas) advocate, do you think I support the Salafi/Wahhabi beards that protest in Britain to force Islam on you??
robvalue :
Quote: You blame every secular person, including me, for everything bad any secular person has done.
I blame every Muslim, and you Atlas, for everything bad any Muslim has ever done.
How is that any different?
My comment to you on page 9; I literally said:
AtlasS33:
Quote:The idea of secularism itself, is denying me my right to rule with religion, even if the majority was by my side. That's why -for the existence of Israel-, I blame each and every secular person -if they accepted it as a legitimate state-; and accuse them of hypocrisy and bigotry if they didn't oppose Israel.
So the problem I have -as I have cited in that page- is with each and every secular person whom:
1) Accept Israel as a legitimate, legal state
2) Smile to the UN and the global system -and describe it as authentic- despite knowing that Israel exist.
It wasn't a broad generalization. One doesn't simply get to carry the sins of others.
robvalue:
Quote: I know you said "if the majority agree with you". But that doesn't change the fact that you want to force religious rule on me, if you had the chance.
Would you think it's fair and right to be forced under a different religious rule, if you found yourself in the minority?
Honestly, I don't care. Honestly, I have to say it, rob. Live like you wanna live, to each his way, to each their path, I know the truth of life on earth, apathy was rained on me a long time ago.
I don't have an "agenda". I just want this exam to end as fast as possible, without me adding more corruption or contributing in more evil.
As a shocking concept, the Quran states clearly that "it will never ever happen". That is, the unified one "Muslim land", where angry Musliims jump around with swords, forcing everybody to the faith:
Sura 11:
( 118 ) And if your Lord had willed, He could have made mankind one community; but they will not cease to differ.
( 119 ) Except whom your Lord has given mercy, and for that He created them. But the word of your Lord is to be fulfilled that, "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and men all together."
Sura 13:
( 31 ) And if there was any qur'an by which the mountains would be removed or the earth would be broken apart or the dead would be made to speak, but to Allah belongs the affair entirely. Then have those who believed not accepted that had Allah willed, He would have guided the people, all of them? And those who disbelieve do not cease to be struck, for what they have done, by calamity - or it will descend near their home - until there comes the promise of Allah. Indeed, Allah does not fail in [His] promise.
Technically, according to these verses, we can forget the global "Caliphate" that ISIS wants to make for a while. It will not come to be. God created us to differ, Sura 11 is so obvious, it is even a "literal" mention. We will always differ, because this life is no more than a test. And you have the right to differ.
Your right to differ is here:
Sura 35:
( 39 ) It is He who has made you successors upon the earth. And whoever disbelieves - upon him will be [the consequence of] his disbelief. And the disbelief of the disbelievers does not increase them in the sight of their Lord except in hatred; and the disbelief of the disbelievers does not increase them except in loss.
So, I don't have an agenda to rule. That's what I learned from the book of God, and that is why I think anarchy is the way, what's the point of governments anyhow? we will always differ, even if an illusion -like the UN, which is a vegetable- came to be. Rather, I prefer the term "community" or maybe "society".
In comparison to the Quran, secularism is a joke. The logic above, will prevent any war from even starting, homosexuals would've got their marriage rights thousands of years ago, atomic weapons would've never came to be, but hey, we were created to differ, after all. And God would intervene to cleanse what he doesn't want, didn't he annihilate the people of Sodom? but did anybody remove their rights to have sex with each other? did Lot -peace be upon him- or any other human, was allowed to hang them and kill them, like the bigot hypocrites in Saudi Arabia, Iran & ISIS do??, but who said we as humans, have the right to burn others??
Are secular countries giving any better example?
Oh no, smoking a joint can lead you to be electrocuted to death, nowadays.
Islam is not Christianity, Islam is not the Roman Catholic Church.
Secularism is the anti-dote of the Church. But Islam is something else.
