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Could atheist westerners, please explain?
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain?
(March 1, 2016 at 6:49 am)abaris Wrote: You don't have to be a historian or political analyst to see, how the conflict has changed over the last four decades.

I'm old enough to remember the last four decades and it went from almost entirely secular to religiously motivated. The Palestinian movement was dogmatically left all through the 70ies and early 80ies. They found their allies in South Jemen, Lybia, Lebanon, the European communist block and Iraq, before Saddam came to power. A Baathist regime nonetheless. They also worked in close connection with European leftwing terrorists. Such as the RAF in West Germany or the Brigate Rosse in Italy.

Their acts of terror were brutal, such as the attack on the Olympic games of '72, but they were no suicide missions and weren't aimed at killing indiscriminately. Taking hostages to exchange them for prisoners or to enforce some political goal, was the main motivation. Religion was very much on the backburner in these days.

Things started to turn religious and more radical with the Lebanese Civil war, when radical muslim groups started to evolve the same as christian militias, often supported by Israel. Arafat's Fatah was marginalised and under siege. The war in Afghanistan opened up a training ground for radical muslims. It was the first time that a kind of war tourism cropped up. Potential fighters from the whole muslim world travelled there to be trained and equipped. Often with Western gear, since we always tended to support everyone fighting the Soviets. Without looking too closely at what they were up to.

You can point to any period of our species history, especially after the first written traditions and major cities started popping up, and when you take a long view of the entirety of our species, it is clear what is going on. We create clubs with labels based on religion and politics and economic views, but the reality most humans don't want to face is that it still boils down to excuse making to gain control over resources.

Do not get me wrong, I think more open societies that are democratic lean towards the evolutionary empathy in our species and I think more dogmatic one party states and theocracies lean more towards the insecure narcissistic bullying force side of our species. 

Sagan's Pale Blue Dot speech should be spread every day more and more. I think the more people that have a long view of history and a more global view the more civil we can become. 

There is no such thing as altruism. There is such a thing as empathy for your fellow human sure. But altruism is another platitude in an imperfect world along with other loaded cliches like "honor" and "courage". When we say we "fight" for something, we are not thinking pragmatically, we are thinking locally and tribal.

We are as a species far too utopia in thought and far too tribal. It isn't that some set ups are more oppressive than others, certainly there are. But regardless, our planet is way too small and with pollution and climate change hurting the entire planet, the world needs to know the days of conquest are over. It is time our species put our species first and the labels on the back burner.
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Messages In This Thread
Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 19, 2016 at 2:50 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - February 19, 2016 at 2:56 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 21, 2016 at 3:18 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 21, 2016 at 3:56 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by LastPoet - February 19, 2016 at 2:58 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by AFTT47 - February 19, 2016 at 3:09 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Gawdzilla - February 19, 2016 at 3:10 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Nay_Sayer - February 19, 2016 at 4:38 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 19, 2016 at 3:53 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 19, 2016 at 4:06 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by brewer - February 19, 2016 at 4:12 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by pocaracas - February 19, 2016 at 5:29 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Minimalist - February 19, 2016 at 5:36 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Crossless1 - February 19, 2016 at 5:49 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by brewer - February 19, 2016 at 8:00 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by ignoramus - February 19, 2016 at 7:49 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 23, 2016 at 8:46 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 23, 2016 at 4:41 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Pat Mustard - February 24, 2016 at 10:12 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 20, 2016 at 3:27 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 21, 2016 at 4:12 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 21, 2016 at 4:19 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 21, 2016 at 4:20 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Cato - February 21, 2016 at 7:33 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by J a c k - February 21, 2016 at 1:49 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 21, 2016 at 2:35 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 23, 2016 at 9:41 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by pocaracas - February 23, 2016 at 10:28 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 23, 2016 at 1:36 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 23, 2016 at 10:54 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 23, 2016 at 2:13 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 24, 2016 at 1:30 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 25, 2016 at 7:06 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Ben Davis - February 26, 2016 at 9:37 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by RobbyPants - February 24, 2016 at 8:55 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 24, 2016 at 9:15 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Ben Davis - February 24, 2016 at 9:25 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 24, 2016 at 9:29 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 24, 2016 at 11:02 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Joods - February 24, 2016 at 11:16 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 24, 2016 at 12:17 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 26, 2016 at 1:12 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 26, 2016 at 7:37 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by pocaracas - February 26, 2016 at 8:25 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - February 26, 2016 at 9:10 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Ben Davis - February 29, 2016 at 9:59 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 26, 2016 at 9:50 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 26, 2016 at 11:01 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Ben Davis - February 26, 2016 at 11:26 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Crossless1 - February 26, 2016 at 11:43 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 26, 2016 at 10:37 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by ignoramus - February 28, 2016 at 2:40 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 26, 2016 at 11:09 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - February 26, 2016 at 9:18 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - February 26, 2016 at 9:30 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Joods - February 26, 2016 at 11:51 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by The Valkyrie - February 27, 2016 at 12:42 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by scoobysnack - February 27, 2016 at 12:59 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 27, 2016 at 6:26 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Pat Mustard - February 27, 2016 at 11:11 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 28, 2016 at 2:36 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 27, 2016 at 6:37 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 27, 2016 at 5:42 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 28, 2016 at 2:11 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 28, 2016 at 2:32 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 28, 2016 at 2:38 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 28, 2016 at 2:50 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 28, 2016 at 3:23 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by ignoramus - February 28, 2016 at 3:47 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 28, 2016 at 4:04 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by pocaracas - February 28, 2016 at 4:30 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 29, 2016 at 8:41 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 29, 2016 at 8:52 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 28, 2016 at 11:02 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by WinterHold - February 29, 2016 at 8:39 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 29, 2016 at 8:50 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by robvalue - February 29, 2016 at 4:53 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Cato - February 29, 2016 at 7:10 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Brian37 - February 29, 2016 at 8:02 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Brian37 - March 1, 2016 at 7:29 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - March 1, 2016 at 10:34 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Drich - March 1, 2016 at 10:40 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Drich - March 1, 2016 at 11:26 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - March 1, 2016 at 12:02 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - March 2, 2016 at 10:20 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Drich - March 2, 2016 at 10:30 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - March 2, 2016 at 10:32 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Drich - March 2, 2016 at 10:37 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - March 2, 2016 at 10:40 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Drich - March 2, 2016 at 12:33 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - March 2, 2016 at 12:45 pm
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by Drich - March 1, 2016 at 11:27 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - March 2, 2016 at 10:28 am
RE: Could atheist westerners, please explain? - by abaris - March 2, 2016 at 12:05 pm

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