The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[Redbeard The Pink]

this is an assertion not an explanation.

I've already explained (what page are we on again?) how the traits attributed to Gaud by Christian doctrine are contradicted by reality, by logic, and by the actual Bible. I am not going to repeat myself just because you thought blinking at my responses stupidly would make them disappear.

In order to know that God's character is not consistent with the Universe you must posses all knowledge and beyond, or know someone who does, because there are things about God in which we on this side cannot know.

No, I just need to know enough about the Universe and enough about the proposed character to be able to conclude that the proposed character doesn't follow the rules I observe in the Universe, nor does it leave evidence of its presence or interference in physical reality. Your Gaud is indistinguishable from something that does not exist.

No, He doesn't it is for your benefit that you believe (trust) not for His. You are the one dead in your sins and He is sinless, holy, and perfect. He lacks nothing and it is only through His mercy that He reaches out to you for your salvation. He is above you and will judge you. So, you may hide behind your lies and supposed lack of evidence. This again will not save you. You will be condemned and already stand condemned without the blood of Christ for the remission of your sins.

And the omni-benevolent god of love will torture me forever in a realm of fire and death, right?


You've said that already, and I'm not sure you realize that it's the equivalent of threatening somebody with the boogey-man or Krampus. I have no reason to believe that your god exists, I have no reason to believe he has the power to torture me forever after I die, and I have no reason to believe that we persist after we die at all. Before you can frighten me with hell, you'd have to convince me that it and your god exist, and you have utterly failed to do so.

This is another assertion without evidence. Suffering is a part of God's plan.

That would be why it isn't a perfect plan. A perfect plan would exclude both sin and suffering from possibility. A perfect plan wouldn't wind up damning a third of the angels in heaven and over 99% of humanity. It's a good thing the god of the Bible doesn't exist, because if he did most of us (including you, probably) would be seriously fucked.

Propaganda. God is not a robber trying to kill you.

No, he's just threatening me with eternal damnation in hell (or you are, rather). That's much, much worse than simply robbing or killing me. The robber is actually infinitely more moral than your god, in that instance, because what he does to me is infinitely less cruel.

You are the one who is in the wrong. You are the one who is robbing God of His rightful glory with your lies.

If your god were really all-powerful, I wouldn't be able to rob him of anything. Is he really so weak that his glory can be stolen by a man in a pointy, pink hat?

He owes you nothing but justice yet through His mercy He will forgive you and seeks to bless you greatly. He paid the penalty for your God hating rejecting, lying, glory stealing sin on the cross. Mock Him and lie to yourself all you wish it will not save you. Only the blood of Christ.

You do realize you sound like someone who belongs to a blood/death cult when you talk like that, right? The very idea of blood sacrifice is immoral and abominable, and the fact you can convince yourself otherwise is a testament to what religion does to people.

It is still subjective not matter what you base it on.

Even a subjective standard like the Golden Rule is more moral than Divine Command theory, which is what you're proposing. Doing what you're told because Gaud said so isn't morality.

When you attempt to put God on your level you show how much you lack in understanding who He is. God came down and suffered as a human. He died on the cross and took our eternal punishment.

Gandalf died to protect the Fellowship of the Ring from the Balrog and rose from the dead to save Middle Earth from Sauron. Why don't you worship Gandalf?

You can pretend that God arbitrarily sends people to Hell, but you are lying to yourself. God sends those to hell who refuse Him.

And that's the criteria Gaud has arbitrarily chosen by making the rules, so his sending people to hell is arbitrary. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Your rejection of His holiness and goodness to hold onto your sin and evil means that God will justly and rightfully send you to Hell.

So you think I deserve to be burned forever. Wow. That's pretty fucked up. I think you're pretty fucking annoying, but i don't think you deserve to burn in hell forever over it. Just another example of how I'm more moral than both you and your imaginary friend.

If you choose, you can see that He does follow the golden rule by fulfilling the punishment for our sin. He had complete and full understanding of the pain of Hell because He took our punishment. Your smug pretension of trying to place yourself above God and His holiness and goodness will not save you. You are not more moral or loving than He.

I'm not just more moral and more loving, I'm also more powerful.

Propaganda and it won't save you

How do you plan to save yourself from the imminent zombie apocalypse?

You keep back peddling about what you didn't say. Why don't you just admit that you don't know the truth about how the universe is made and that you are just grasping at what sounds good to you today so that you can reject God.

I've already said I don't know exactly how the Universe formed, but that has practically nothing to do with why I reject your Gaud. I reject your Gaud because there's been no demonstration that it's real.

Insults won't save you.

And wasting all this time won't save you from the zombies, woman! Put your zombie survival bunker together, then post on the internet. Priorities!

Don't believe everything you think. God is good

Believing everything I think is what kept me believing in magic from storybooks for so long. I became an atheist when I finally stopped doing that.

In other words you don't know. Don't stake your soul on such a flimsy belief system.

Ah...Pascal's Wager...prove I have a soul and then we can talk about where it's going. Also, if the Muslims are right, aren't you kind of fucked? If the only evidence you have is your book, why isn't their book evidence, too?

I don't know probably modified behavior which isn't the same as knowing God and having the Holy Spirit indwell in you. Moralism doesn't save, modified behavior doesn't save, being nicer doesn't save, having lasting relationships don't save, having your best life now doesn't save.

See, this is one of the main reasons you're having a hard time convincing anyone. This idea you have that we were never "True Christians" is just ignorant and insulting. You might insist that if I really believed I still would, but I know how sincere I was. I was more active in ministry than you, I believed more in the practical power of the Holy Spirit than you (I was casting evil spirits out of houses, for fuck's sake), and I know the Bible better than you do. Regardless of your assertions to the contrary, I sincerely believed in the saving power of Jesus to such an extent that I actively engaged in spiritual warfare, and now I don't believe he's even real.