Why do atheists and liberals like Islam?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Such posturing! For someone who claims over and over not to care, you sure spend a lot of time whining before actually getting into anything of substance. You seem especially concerned with portraying me as someone who absolutely refuses to acknowledge facts. Spare me that bullshit, be an adult and just state your case if that's what you want to do, as you claim.

No. What I'm doing is pointing out your lack of intellectual integrity because you simply won't acknowledge it. If you were honest enough to say, "You know, I'm sorry, I ran my mouth and I shouldn't have made assumptions about you," I'd have a bit more respect for you.

As for stating my case, I've already done so. If you're too dense to have gotten it by now, you'll need to go back and reread my posts.

I actually did not insinuate that the revolution was motivated by his secularism, or at least only his secularism.

Here's where you make that insinuation:

And by the way, how'd that whole thing with the Shah in Iran go again? Radical Islam ushered in under massive popular support, if I recall?

It seems to me that all of this history is interesting and important in its own right but, in this discussion, is more a way to try to bury the harm of people believing in medieval shit.

No, the reason why I speak out against these overbroad generalizations that always get made around here is not: trying to "bury the harm"; not because I'm a contrarian; not because I'm an SJW; nor any other reason you wish to impute. It's because with this particular topic, bigotry runs rampant, especially in places like AF.org, and I am against bigotry no matter which target its aimed at. And simply because someone stands up against bigotry doesn't mean they're an "Islam-lover", any more than someone who campaigns for cleaner air is an avid bicyclist.

We've got right-wing extremists both in America and Europe who want to halt Muslim migration based upon nothing but their religion. That is indeed raw bigotry. I will speak out against it. That is my motivation -- to make sure that enough information is at hand to help stop the slide into bigotry.

The next time you want to pontificate on someone's motivations, you'd probably ought to make sure you know what you're talking about first. Twice now you've demonstrated the willingness to opine out of ignorance. That's a bad habit to have and you'd ought to leave it behind.

Why can't we just say Islam is bad without getting into a bunch of rationalizations about how everything that ever involved it actually had all sorts of other factors (which of course will always be the case)?

I'm not rationalizing the evil that has been done in that religion's name, and I certainly don't think it has been a good influence in history. But the obvious question is, if there are always other factors, why do you focus on this particular one at the expense of the others?

Personally I doubt things would have turned out half as bad if people weren't under such religious fantasies which make them fanatical, confused, and easy to manipulate.

Banal observation is banal. But hey, we agree on something.