Why do atheists and liberals like Islam?

[Amine]

It seems to me that all of this history is interesting and important in its own right but, in this discussion, is more a way to try to bury the harm of people believing in medieval shit.

Your failure to see the importance of history in this discussion is pretty obvious. But it makes all the difference between informed and ignorant, opinion and opinionated. If you don't even know the basics, there's only your tabloid broad brush left. And a broad brush isn't the right tool to inspire respect.

Such posturing! For someone who claims over and over not to care, you sure spend a lot of time whining before actually getting into anything of substance. You seem especially concerned with portraying me as someone who absolutely refuses to acknowledge facts. Spare me that bullshit, be an adult and just state your case if that's what you want to do, as you claim.

No.  What I'm doing is pointing out your lack of intellectual integrity because you simply won't acknowledge it.  If you were honest enough to say, "You know, I'm sorry, I ran my mouth and I shouldn't have made assumptions about you," I'd have a bit more respect for you.

As for stating my case, I've already done so. If you're too dense to have gotten it by now, you'll need to go back and reread my posts.

I actually did not insinuate that the revolution was motivated by his secularism, or at least only his secularism.

Here's where you make that insinuation:

And by the way, how'd that whole thing with the Shah in Iran go again? Radical Islam ushered in under massive popular support, if I recall?

It seems to me that all of this history is interesting and important in its own right but, in this discussion, is more a way to try to bury the harm of people believing in medieval shit.

No, the reason why I speak out against these overbroad generalizations that always get made around here is not: trying to "bury the harm"; not because I'm a contrarian; not because I'm an SJW; nor any other reason you wish to impute. It's because with this particular topic, bigotry runs rampant, especially in places like AF.org, and I am against bigotry no matter which target its aimed at. And simply because someone stands up against bigotry doesn't mean they're an "Islam-lover", any more than someone who campaigns for cleaner air is an avid bicyclist.

We've got right-wing extremists both in America and Europe who want to halt Muslim migration based upon nothing but their religion. That is indeed raw bigotry. I will speak out against it. That is my motivation -- to make sure that enough information is at hand to help stop the slide into bigotry.

The next time you want to pontificate on someone's motivations, you'd probably ought to make sure you know what you're talking about first. Twice now you've demonstrated the willingness to opine out of ignorance.  That's a bad habit to have and you'd ought to leave it behind.

Why can't we just say Islam is bad without getting into a bunch of rationalizations about how everything that ever involved it actually had all sorts of other factors (which of course will always be the case)?

I'm not rationalizing the evil that has been done in that religion's name, and I certainly don't think it has been a good influence in history. But the obvious question is, if there are always other factors, why do you focus on this particular one at the expense of the others?

Personally I doubt things would have turned out half as bad if people weren't under such religious fantasies which make them fanatical, confused, and easy to manipulate.

Banal observation is banal. But hey, we agree on something.

Ha. I think it is banal too, which is kinda why all of this baffles me so much. But we can disagree on the immigrant issue, whether or not it makes me a bigot. Letting in Muslims with little to no vetting is a numbers game. If 99% (which is generous) of them are decent people, that's a problem in the same sense that a school where 99% of the kids don't do school shootings is a problem. Speaking of 99%'s, 99% of the atheists I've met who are outspoken about Islam are extra-careful to always clarify that they aren't saying they think all Muslims are violent extremists or even close to that. Actually all of them (the atheists I've met, I mean) are, but I'll say 99% just because. I'm sure there's some who actually are bigoted, even here. Maybe I filter such types out and so don't notice them. As for the immigration issue, it's reasonable to at least be concerned about what the vetting process will be and if it is practicable.

"You know, I'm sorry, I ran my mouth and I shouldn't have made assumptions about you," is actually what you should say to me, because you made your "county line" comment, an assumption about me, before I made my "Pakistan" comment. And I actually did take back what I said and called it sloppy. Still waiting on that from you. I shouldn't have stooped to your level.