RE: Has anyone discovered a successful way to make religious people atheist?
April 11, 2016 at 6:35 pm
(April 10, 2016 at 1:19 am)Goosebump Wrote:(April 10, 2016 at 12:54 am)Won2blv Wrote: For someone like me that is transitioning as we speak, it really is an individual process. One of my biggest struggles personally is stepping back and looking at things from an outsiders perspective. Not just how I have viewed things the first 28 years of my life. But its extremely difficult to continually be honest with myself. But I also believe in micromanaging almost everything I take in. Every quote, every study, every fact I read I like to vet. For example, I remember when someone used this quote by Socrates to express how people have always been saying the same things about how the world is getting worse, “The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.” At first I thought it was a good point. But then I did some research into and found that it can't really be verified. So it was not that big of a deal, but its just one of those things that I personally believe shows how important it is for us to actually dig into things to a level that we can truly understand what we're digesting.*** In quote emphasis mine for below ***
My biggest gripe with atheist is that they don't have empathy when trying to debate things with theists. They don't have any obligation to, but if you have the goal to make someone think then you have to remember that its a human trait to dismiss something sensical just merely because you don't like the messenger. And atheist are prone to the exact same human qualities.
Also, I think every theist probably has their own specific pressure point. For me, it was learning that the exodus and Joshua stories were greatly fabricated.
Couple things but before I say them, you be you. Your doing what is right for you and that's great. No qualms there.
That said:
I don't think Atheist can be said to "have a goal". That's a characterization. Some do, like the militant ones. Then that's fair. But by and large I wouldn't paint with such a wide brush. I would say that other groups, religious or secular have much more of a goal then atheists by and large. If we have any at all, I haven't been given the hand shake yet to know for sure. /s
I don't think Atheist "don't have empathy when trying to debate things". Reason is largely outside personal emotional experience. I can have a very profound experience when my niece is born, walks for the first time, says my name as her first word, (she denys it but there is video evidence) that all transcends reason. But I would never use that experience to try to reason an argument. I would never claim I know love more then you because of those experiences. That's subjective and probably a fallacy of appeal to emotion or a composition/division.
To claim that atheist "don't have empathy" when reasoning is not realistic. They likely have a great deal. And they don't suspend it to reason. They choose to remove it from their reasoning yet feel it all the same. A great burden none-the-less. To reason, with empathy is a rotten tomato. Sweet and rancid at the same time.
I agree that atheists are not a monolith. Thats why I said that IF they have the goal of making a theist think they should show empathy. I use word empathy not in an emotionally concerned way but just as trying to see things from their (the theist) point of view. Some don't really have a goal in mind. Or they do but they only know how to lob missiles. Atheism is not a religion obviously, so from my point of view as a theist that is de-converting, trying to think in the shoes of a theist and reasoning from that point of view is the most powerful.