(April 13, 2016 at 8:51 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: This is a totally secular discussion and has nothing to do with god.
First, I should start by defining what I mean by free will. You may not agree with my definition. In that case we are not talking about the same thing and should use different terminology for different concepts if we want to communicate effect. Arguing over the one true definition of “free will” will get us nowhere. So I will describe a concept which I will here designate “Free Will.”
But even before I do that, I find that I must define “will.” I differentiate between will and desire. It is my will to stay healthy and have a reasonable amount of weight. It is my desire to eat as much chocolate as I can get my hands on. So my will is that falulty which once informed about the outcomes available to me chosen outcome. Whereas desire is what brings a moment of pleasure irrespective of the final outcome.
A free will then is one which is first informed and then not overwhelmed by contradictory desires.
Based on these definitions, I conclude that humans do not have free will.
1. We are often required to choose actions when we don’t know the outcome. To choose an action without information is not an exercise of the will, even if those who have power over you to force you to make such chooses insist on holding us responsible for those chooses.
2. Most of us know that scratching mosquito bites does not stop the itching. We tell ourselves every summer that we will not scratch. Yet, we do it anyway, knowing that scratching may cause the bite to sting and get infected. We can’t even say we do it because we want relief, for it brings no respite. We have information about the outcome, but our will is overwhelmed by the desire to scratch.
As for 1, don't you make an assessment of the possible outcomes and then make a choice based on your analysis? Sounds like free will.
As for 2, does anyone have free will over reflexive or autonomic brain functions? When the doctor hits you on the knee with the rubber hammer you will have the reflexive kick. If you watch the doctor you can override the reflex and stop the kick. Free will? Do you have free will to stop breathing? No, but you do have free will to hold your breath under water, at least for awhile. You can't stop your heart from beating either (well you can but lets not go there, apply this to the breathing also) but you can slow down the rate with free will by initiating a vagal response. Back to the itching, you can stop the reflex to scratch is you want. Just depends on how much "you want".
In my world free will exists on a sliding scale.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
