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Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe
#55
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe
Do you not see those given a portion from the book they buy error and desire you go astray from the path.


And God knows your enemies and sufficient is God as a Guardian and Sufficient is he as helper.

From the Jews were people who alter words from their places and they say we heard and disobeyed, and they heard as one who hears not and listen to us distorting with their tongue and slandering the religion and if they said we heard and we obeyed and do hear and do look upon us it would of been better for them and more upright but God has cursed them for their disbelieve so they don't believe but a little.

O you who are given the book, believe   in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of God Must be carried out.

Indeed God doesn't forgive to be associated with him, and he forgives what is below that of who he pleases, and who associates with God he devised a great sin.

Do you not see those who attribute purity to themselves, but rather God purifies who he wills, and they will not be dealt with unjustly.

See how they attribute lies to God and sufficient is it as great sin.

Do you not see how a portion are given a portion from the book, they believe in the Jibt (sorcery) and Taghut (that which is falsely worshiped or that which transgresses bounds) and say these are more guided then who believe in a path.

Do they have a share in the authority? So they would not give the people in even a speck in the date stone.

Or do they envy the people for what God has given them out of his grace? So we gave the family of Abraham, the book and the wisdom, and gave them a great authority.





So of them is who believe in it and of them is who turned away from it, and sufficient is hell as burning.




Indeed those who disbelieve in Our Ayat (instances of guidance, signs, revelations, etc), We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely God is Mighty, Wise.

And (as for) those who believe and do good deeds, We will make them enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them for ever; they shall have therein pure mates, and We shall make them enter a dense shade.

God commands you to give the trusts to their owners, and that if you judge between people, to do so by justice, indeed God admonishes with you what is excellent, indeed God is hearing knowing.

O You who believe, obey God and obey the Messenger and those who possess the authority from you, therefore if you dispute in a thing, refer it to God and the Messenger if you believe in God and the last day, this is better and best in ending.


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My comments:

The verse starts with awakening us to a people who wish to lead astray others. These verse people came down and inherited a false leadership by people who distort God's words from their places and who wanted to be obeyed and listened to while they themselves didn't truly hear and obey the message of the Prophets. 

Then it goes on to talk about how these leaders attribute purity to themselves while they aren't truly pure. They put the mantle of purity so they can lead people in religion and they wish to be heard.

It talks about how they in fact believe in the Jibt and Taghut, the latter is shown in Quran to be all those who disbelievers follow and lead them from the light to the darkness (verse 2:257).

So it can be seen they believe in false authority and false leadership, who are idolized, and put a long side God in the obedience and value owed to him.

Then it asks an important question "Or do they have a share in the authority?", and they weren't claiming authority over the heavens and the earth or control or they were given the kingdom, but were claiming they were leaders that ought to be followed for guidance by society.

Then it talks about an alternative motive, or is really the case they envy those people out what God has given them out of his grace? What has he given them? So we gave the family of Abraham the book and the wisdom and gave them a great authority. 

Here it's saying well they acknowledge Isaac, Jacob and Joseph and Abraham, being given leadership and authority that was divine and must be obeyed...so do they claim they have a share in that authority? Or are they envying a people who have that authority while they acknowledge such a way of God in the past?

Then it goes on to emphasize some people believed in it and others turned away from it, and if we think about it, the issue of submission to God was always through acknowledging the authority of his representatives.

However here it's negating the authority of scholars and religious leaders in general, except for those who God gives authority to.

Then it emphasizes those who disbelieve in God's Ayat (plural of Aya), in Quran Jesus is said to be an "Aya" to people. 

Then it contrasts on the other hand the reward of those who believe and do good.

Then it reminds of that trusts ought to be given to their owners and that justice should be what rules between people's affairs.

Then it commands believers to obey God and obey the Messenger and those who possess the authority from them to the extent they refer all dispute back to God and the Messenger if they believe in God and the last day.

What is unclear about these verses?

It's emphasizing on the true authority given by God, that scholars of Jews and Christians had no such authority, but rather such authority was given to the family of Abraham and indeed it was a great authority that who disbelieved in it was in sure loss and who believed in it had a reward, that indeed who disbelieve in God's Ayat are in hell and those who believe and do good are in paradise, and that one of the purposes of God establishing this authority is for the rule and judgement of justice between people.  And it's this light, flow, and context, it says to obey the Ulil-Amr (those who possess the authority).

Is there any room for speculation? Isn't this clear that what is meant here is people who are similar to the family of Abraham, given authority like the family of Abraham? 

Is this not clear? 

Or is it as the verses themselves warn in the start, that people "hear but do not hear", "hear but disobey"...and "distort verses from their places" like the Jews did in the past....and that they do so because they wished to be followed and obeyed in the religion, claiming an authority that doesn't belong to them?


@Catholic_Lady ...if you read this, can you tell me is it clear to you that what is meant here is people given the divine authority like that of the family of Abraham?

I know Atlas won't accept, but can you tell me what you think of these verses?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 14, 2016 at 9:59 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Minimalist - April 14, 2016 at 10:01 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 14, 2016 at 10:13 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 14, 2016 at 10:33 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 16, 2016 at 2:32 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by ReptilianPeon - April 15, 2016 at 3:13 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 16, 2016 at 3:50 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by ReptilianPeon - April 16, 2016 at 2:29 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 17, 2016 at 3:13 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by ReptilianPeon - April 17, 2016 at 7:17 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 17, 2016 at 6:08 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 15, 2016 at 9:07 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 16, 2016 at 3:56 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Mister Agenda - April 15, 2016 at 10:58 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Goosebump - April 16, 2016 at 2:43 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 16, 2016 at 10:57 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 16, 2016 at 5:50 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 16, 2016 at 11:16 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 16, 2016 at 2:49 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 16, 2016 at 2:56 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 16, 2016 at 6:27 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 16, 2016 at 6:46 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 16, 2016 at 6:59 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 17, 2016 at 4:49 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 17, 2016 at 6:15 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 17, 2016 at 7:52 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 17, 2016 at 5:22 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by ReptilianPeon - April 17, 2016 at 6:49 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 18, 2016 at 1:18 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 17, 2016 at 8:18 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 18, 2016 at 1:40 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 18, 2016 at 5:16 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 18, 2016 at 5:19 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 18, 2016 at 5:30 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 18, 2016 at 9:36 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 18, 2016 at 2:59 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 19, 2016 at 6:34 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 18, 2016 at 5:33 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 18, 2016 at 7:29 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 24, 2016 at 8:13 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 18, 2016 at 5:56 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 18, 2016 at 10:14 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 18, 2016 at 11:01 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 18, 2016 at 4:40 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 18, 2016 at 11:06 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 18, 2016 at 2:51 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2016 at 12:17 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 18, 2016 at 4:16 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Simon Moon - April 18, 2016 at 5:02 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 18, 2016 at 5:43 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2016 at 8:42 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Simon Moon - April 18, 2016 at 9:55 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2016 at 10:59 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by TubbyTubby - April 19, 2016 at 2:08 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 19, 2016 at 2:13 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2016 at 12:08 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 20, 2016 at 1:20 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2016 at 12:50 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 19, 2016 at 4:08 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2016 at 4:19 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 19, 2016 at 4:51 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2016 at 6:13 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 20, 2016 at 7:40 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 20, 2016 at 1:22 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 20, 2016 at 1:29 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 20, 2016 at 7:58 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 20, 2016 at 10:15 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 20, 2016 at 11:16 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 20, 2016 at 12:04 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 20, 2016 at 11:33 am
Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by TubbyTubby - April 20, 2016 at 11:41 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 20, 2016 at 11:51 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 20, 2016 at 12:08 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 20, 2016 at 1:35 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by WinterHold - April 21, 2016 at 2:46 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 21, 2016 at 6:00 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 21, 2016 at 6:02 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 21, 2016 at 7:05 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by ReptilianPeon - April 21, 2016 at 8:04 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 21, 2016 at 8:23 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by MysticKnight - April 24, 2016 at 6:50 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 24, 2016 at 8:22 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by robvalue - April 25, 2016 at 4:43 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Goosebump - April 25, 2016 at 4:49 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by ReptilianPeon - April 25, 2016 at 6:08 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by ReptilianPeon - April 25, 2016 at 8:20 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - April 25, 2016 at 8:55 am
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Society - April 28, 2016 at 10:50 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by Brian37 - May 16, 2016 at 6:58 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by dom.donald - May 16, 2016 at 5:38 pm
RE: Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe - by abaris - May 16, 2016 at 5:59 pm

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