Shia & Sunna: Why I don't believe

[WinterHold]

Stop trying to make apologies for your religion. Seriously, this is NOT about you as an individual, this is about the entire concept all three try to sell and all three point to their respective books to justify peace or violence. It isn't personal. I have a problem with all three, but even the religions of Asia and the Orient don't get a pass from me either as far as logic. 

Humans form groups and unfortunately in that process we base those things around our labels and that in turn, even within the same labels, causes divisions. 

Everyone has their concept of justice, Islam doesn't own a patent on it. I can see the affects on religious tribalism and that is not "justice" in the slightest. You do it, Jews do it Christians do it, every religion does it. And that says to me our ability to be cruel or compassionate is in our species, not the labels we hold.

I need to object here, tribalism do indeed exist in Sunni and Shia versions of Islam; I don't do it, in other words I don't care about race and actually think that tribalism and racism are forbidden according to my faith.

I elaborated that in the topic; and gave examples too.

As a person, I'm so mixed already. So I had to find a place that accepts me, nowhere gave me the haven I seek but the Quran, I can indeed bring the evidence from inside the book, I've been doing this for years anyhow..

I was raised by japanese video game programmers, learned about politics through Green Day, took a sexual fetish or two from Marrylin Manson, learned how to live from an Arab called Mohammed, and decided to live pray and die in the shadow of an entity, so alien yet so familiar, God is on of the names, Allah, he's  bigger than anything else.

I'm not making excuses; it's what I believe in.
As for justice, I don't think criminals are served in the modern era, war criminals roam so freely, say hi to the Sauds who roam America like they own it, say hello to Bashar Al Assad who killed half of syria.

Let's try Islam for a change.

robvalue

BTW, in Arabic it's a wonder, the book is admitted by so many people to be a wonderful piece of literary work, Arabic language was defined through the Quran, not the other way around.

Simon Moon

Not going to waste my time reading this thread, but I love the fact that we have Mystic and Atlas debating their BS with each other.


What's the saying?

Two bald men fighting over a comb.

Carry on....

Ah, that's a live show to the scene; currently in Iraq and Syria, Muslims of different sects are using bullets instead of words, saying hi with bombs, I mean imagine it:
(You don't believe in Ahlo Bayt? you demonically possessed waste !!!! boooom)
(You don't believe in Sunna? you evil crooked Mortad !!!! booom).

Indeed, indeed. 

Mystic seems like a decent fella too, so I guess we have to discuss what we don't agree on, I wish if all Muslims did this, maybe blood will stop to spill a little. Extremism ends when people act like this; easily if you don't like a point: criticize, don't hold it inside until you explode, the other side should also have flexibility.

So I do think things are cool, don't bet on me and him blowing each other; we -both- don't seem like it.
Despite my criticism to his methods and clan of ahlu bayt; and him to mine.

Both of us believe in Alllah at the end of the day.

MysticKnight

The verse starts with awakening us to a people who wish to lead astray others. These verse people came down and inherited a false leadership by people who distort God's words from their places and who wanted to be obeyed and listened to while they themselves didn't truly hear and obey the message of the Prophets. 

Where is Ali's name in the Quran again? 
Who's Ali anyways? the guy wasted his nation TBH, because of him, bandits reached the halls of command, and climbed the ranks of ruling anyhow.

Mmmm, again, when something doesn't exist, you can't accuse me of "distorting it"; IT DOESN'T EXIST", Mystic. Bring me a verse from the Quran that tells me to follow Ali. that's the case.

Elections are the way to choose leaders; aside from prophets -who died; all of them BTW-, we don't get to rule but through elections:

Sura 42
( 38 )   And those who have responded to their lord and established prayer and whose affair is [determined by] consultation among themselves, and from what We have provided them, they spend.

Mmmmm 

Why do shia and sunna faiths are so backward?
If we depended on the Quran, we would've had the essence of civilization since thousands of years..thanks for shia and sunna for ruining the day with their scholars and Hadiths.

Do you not see how a portion are given a portion from the book, they believe in the Jibt (sorcery) and Taghut (that which is falsely worshiped or that which transgresses bounds) and say these are more guided then who believe in a path.

Do they have a share in the authority? So they would not give the people in even a speck in the date stone.

Or do they envy the people for what God has given them out of his grace? So we gave the family of Abraham, the book and the wisdom, and gave them a great authority.

Please Mystic..quote the verses with their numbers, so I don't end up with deviated vision, or temporary blindness.
The font is so ugly too. 

Ah.. you're missing a lot verses up there; allow me to quote:

====
Sura 4, page(s) 86. 87
( 46 )   Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.
( 47 )   O you who were given the Scripture, believe in what We have sent down [to Muhammad], confirming that which is with you, before We obliterate faces and turn them toward their backs or curse them as We cursed the sabbath-breakers. And ever is the decree of Allah accomplished.
( 48 )   Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.
( 49 )   Have you not seen those who claim themselves to be pure? Rather, Allah purifies whom He wills, and injustice is not done to them, [even] as much as a thread [inside a date seed].
( 50 )   Look how they invent about Allah untruth, and sufficient is that as a manifest sin.
( 51 )   Have you not seen those who were given a portion of the Scripture, who believe in superstition and false objects of worship and say about the disbelievers, "These are better guided than the believers as to the way"?
( 52 )   Those are the ones whom Allah has cursed; and he whom Allah curses - never will you find for him a helper.
( 53 )   Or have they a share of dominion? Then [if that were so], they would not give the people [even as much as] the speck on a date seed.
( 54 )   Or do they envy people for what Allah has given them of His bounty? But we had already given the family of Abraham the Scripture and wisdom and conferred upon them a great kingdom.

( 55 )   And some among them believed in it, and some among them were averse to it. And sufficient is Hell as a blaze

( 56 )   Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.

( 57 )   But those who believe and do righteous deeds - We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide forever. For them therein are purified spouses, and We will admit them to deepening shade.

( 58 )   Indeed, Allah commands you to render trusts to whom they are due and when you judge between people to judge with justice. Excellent is that which Allah instructs you. Indeed, Allah is ever Hearing and Seeing.
( 59 )   O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.
====

Two pages..you actually quoted two pages from the Quran, without numbering them, without telling me about the number of the pages..
And you're using the ugliest font ever. Are you trying to kill me with a brain freeze ?
And, literally not being genuine about your verse copying because it seems like you didn't copy the brutal verses that speak about hellfire..

Again, I don't see your "Ahlo Bayt" in here, I don't see Ali, Fatima, Hussain, Hassan, Mehdi, Iran, nobody.
All i see, is God. Who spoke about ahlo bayt dominion again?

You wouldn't need cutting verses and distort them from their context; have some confidence in ahlo bayt, even though they are all dead ><

Here: