Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god

[Blueyedlion]

There's no such thing as a 'wrong belief' because the universe is not objective, only collective based on the contribution of subjective experience. So what ever you do in life whether it's intimate such as how you conduct yourself towards others in a loving relationship, or how you simply treat yourself, there is no 'wrong' approach, just different ones, because no matter what, you had to go through that experience to learn something from it. There was something to gain by going through it. So everything has value. Everything no matter what has substance depending on the individual.

quip wrote: The collective might and quite often does, disagree with the subjective. As such, there can be a 'wrong belief' ...take 'witch hunts', 'inquisitions' and ISIS as collectively contributed examples.

That's very misunderstood in your explanation. In fact, every single person will in most cases disagree with everyone and anyone else on most things - you see one shade of grey, someone else sees a slightly different shade. You can never see the variation anybody else sees because everyone has a different subjective perspective. Otherwise according to you everyone's wrong against everyone else? No body can speak for another persons experience. What is much more logical, is what is right and wrong is entirely up to you and no one else. The function of society is based on a misplaced presumption that if we allow each other to create an authority over another, this then gives us some sort of power to know whats what collectively, that somehow the amalgamation of many perspectives can have the slightest insight on yours, even though they never experienced yours. All this does is, this gives your own power of your own experience over to another. By living under the rule of anyone else, judging any single one of your actions, is to give up your ability to judge for yourself. You're essentially giving up your power of who you are to another.

Figure that one out

When you are challenged by the weight of any form of cultural belief that doesnt sit right with you, which can range from the size of family unit, to a neighborhood, to a town, city, state, nation. Those are a collective built beliefs based purely from those only that cultivated that belief system. If you didnt have a hand in the formation of them, they are not your beliefs. So those beliefs will not agree with yours, simple as that. Those cultural beliefs aren't wrong because you don't agree with them, they're just not for you. As yours aren't for them - because you weren't there in that collective perspective of culture to experience them, to relate to them.

And so you can see no opinion is really right or wrong, only your opinion you to decide for yourself. And to go further, there even isnt such a thing as right or wrong, there's just different variations of choice that after being made, may turn out in a way that is either less agreeable then you'd like or as agreeable. And this is where we can talk about maturity, when what comes your way in every aspect of life is actually beneficial to you no matter how dire they may seem, because through every experience there is something to be gained in a learning opportunity of who you are in the reaction of how you dealt with the experience.

As you mature, you realize, that even if the experience you desired to be agreeable with you did not end up that way, you still learnt something about who you are regardless, and that in turn, allows you to shed some of your ego, because then you can apply any opportunity that presents itself to you, whether you like it or not as an opportunity for growth.

witch hunts', 'inquisitions' and ISIS

You know what's just as 'bad'? in Australia where i'm from, there is a law that allows the culling of millions of kangaroos, because a couple of people decided we as humans know what the healthy number should be according to us. And anything outside of what works for us, is dysfunctional. Because apparently, we knew the entire population of kangaroos 100 years ago, 500 years ago, 10,000, 1,000,000. So we know what is normal population size. BS.

That in at least my mind, is just as 'bad' as any human mass deaths since they've been slaughtered for no actual reason. But humans like to make the human experience more important than everything else because of some egotistical top of the food chain mindset. Either way, neither is wrong or right. We kill each other, we kill animals, they kill us, and they kill each other. Each one serving their role in life.

Are orca's wrong in tossing seals playfully to eachother after catching it, where they're flipping it into air while its bleeding to death with bite marks and gashes throughout its body. No, just the behavior of life being life. And then what of flesh eating bacteria, are they in the wrong for consuming us, much less us for consuming cows? It's all just perspective. You can't judge, you're not in that relationship of experience. But then you might say, but what about death, there's no growth of self in that, you die that's it. Well if you don't believe in reincarnation, sure...

What is mind - one of many forms of energy, what is matter - one of many forms of energy. So you're saying matter can reform / reincarnate from a cow to soil to grass, but the energy of mind cant? That's your own limitation you're putting on reality, from your own limitation of what you've only experienced, or humanity has collectively only experienced.