Why is Allah holding Iblis to a different standard than the other Jinn?

[ReptilianPeon]

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The first thing to say is Quran 2:34 doesn't say "We said to the Jinn* and the angels". It reads: "We said to the angels". It doesn't make a distinction for any Jinn present. It only mentions Iblis and the Angels. So I think it was reasonable to conclude the verse is Iblis is an Angel. We assume, based on other verses, that Iblis is not an Angel.

*Or Iblis and the Angels

I can accept that Iblis was never an Angel. What I'm saying is the verse is not clear. I wouldn't have known based on that verse alone. Quran 2:34, in particular, is worded quite misleadingly I would say. The Tafsir scholars agree with you, but most people, especially in the 3rd word, don't have access to the vast volumes of Tafsir - and may be illiterate. The interpretation  of the Tafsir scholars seems forced - nowhere in the passage Quran 2:34 is taken from does it make a disinfection for Iblis (as far as I'm aware).

E.g. Quran 2:31 says "And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell me the names of these if ye are right."" and Quran 2:30 "Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not.""

Again we see the Quran not making a distinction. It doesn't say "Angels and Jinn" or "Angels and Iblis", even though both Jinn and Angels were supposed to be present. Quran 2:30 says Allah only talked to Angels, even though Iblis is supposed to have been present. Quran 2:34 says only Angels were told to prostrate. Does this mean Iblis was not given the same instructions as the Angels seeing as only Angels were instructed by Allah? Why isn't the Quran being clear with us?


We see this theme again in Quran 20:116

"And when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, they fell prostrate (all) save Iblis; he refused."

The Quran is misleading us into thinking Iblis is Angel again. There verse never mentions the Jinn having to prostrate. Only Angels. Why doesn't it say "We said unto the Jinn and the Angels" or "Iblis and the Angels".

But let's put that aside for the moment. What is the benefit to creating Jinn? How does this help creation? Do they serve any useful purpose?

The smokeless fire part always loses me. Why have Jinn not been detected yet? Fire is heat. Why do we not feel the heat of their fire or have any means of detecting their fire? What tools (and you can speculate on future technology here) would I need to detect a Jinn?

Well as u see with the fall of Iblis to Satan in the Qur'an he told Allah for throwing him out of Paradise he would deceive the sons of Adam pbuh and lead them astray. Allah told him he and whoever follows him shall be thrown into Hellfire. So before mankind was created Jinn were the only free-willed being. But just as there are good and bad people, there are good and bad jinn as well. But if u read closely in the Qur'an Allah told the angels, before Adam pbuh was even created, He was going to create a vicegerent to live on Earth. So Allah knew that Adam and Eve would disobey Him and fall from Paradise. That was His plan as a lesson for them to beware of Satan. He is an enemy to all mankind and he will try to trick u on Earth just as he tricked u in Paradise at the forbidden tree. So perhaps jinn were created by God to test mankind in this life. It was the father of Jinn Iblis who tricked our father of mankind Adam pbuh to begin the test of God for us as humans. Just because jinn are made from fire doesn't mean we have to feel them. Angels are made from light but we can't see them in their angelic form. Oxygen has atoms but we can't see or feel them. God is there but we can't see Him. Point being just because we humans can't see or feel something doesn't mean it's not there. Jinn have been detected. Jinn are what u as Christians would refer to as spirits or demons. Evil jinn use their God-given powers to possess humans and assist them with black magic and conjuration. As jinn and humans are forbade by God to do magic they all have free-will and will stand before Him in judgment. Those of us who believe and worship Him alone, seeking and are blessed with His forgiveness when we sin on those shall be no fear nor shall they grieve, and will find their home in a world of joy and satisfaction. But as for those who disbelieve, drawing upon themselves His wrath and anger, for them will be a painful destruction and torment.

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Well as u see with the fall of Iblis to Satan in the Qur'an he told Allah for throwing him out of Paradise he would deceive the sons of Adam pbuh and lead them astray

And even though Allah loves humans Allah does nothing to stop Iblis? How can a mere human do battle with such a powerful entity as Iblis? That is what is expected of us, yes?

If Allah came and told me to bow to Adam I would bow down, because I know that I would lose any fight with Allah. There is nothing to be gained from not bowing down. Allah, the creator of everything, will win in the end - not matter what - so why bother fighting?

Would you say the hellfire is an absence of Allah? If so, then Allah cannot be "omnipresent" because Allah cannot be in all places at once if Allah is not also in the hellfire. What business does Allah have in the hellfire? Does Allah know what it feels like to suffer in the hellfire?

This story in the Quran about Iblis has a lot in common with the creation story of the Zarathustrians, which I elaborate on below. Did you also know that Zarathustrians are also required to wash before prayers (their version of wudu) and pray five times a day? (they have their own version of Salah too).

Authentic Gatha Zoroastrianism has an article titled:

The five daily prayers/namáz/nemö and the Month of Bahman in Zoroastrianism

And it explains this ritual washing before each prayer:

Before each Gah, i.e., time to meditate/pray, each Zoroastrian must perform “pádyáp” or “kushti pádyáp” ceremony. Face and limbs are washed 3 times, the first 2 times with flower extracts, cucumber juice and oils, substituted by soap and lotion at these times and finally with water. The mouth must be washed/rinsed thoroughly with a refreshing juice and/or mouthwash.

1. Zarathustrians have the sunrise prayer (Hávan) which is equivalent to Fajr,

2. Then comes the noon prayer (Rapithwin) which is equivalent to Zuhr.

3. Uzayäirin is the afternoon prayer which is equivalent to Asr

4. Aiwi-srüthrim is the evening/night prayer and is equivalent to Maghrib

5. úsha.hin is the might night until dawn payer which is equivalent to Isha.

And for each prayer you have to wash yourself like in you do for Wudu.


Anyhow, here is a summary of the creation story:

1. Ahura Mazda (the monotheistic deity of Zarathustrians) created man after every other living thing was created. Sky came first, then water, then the Earth (which was flat at first), then the plants, then the non-human animals and, finally, humans.
2. Ahura Mazda, after creating man, asked the Evil Spirit to praise (bow to) Gayomard, the first man. The Evil Spirit refused, claimed that it was far better than man (just like Iblis).
3. Ahura Mazda knew the Evil Spirit and the other demons wanted to destroy creation.
4. The reason there is sickness and death is because the Evil Spirit refused to praise man - like Ahura Mazda wanted it to. Like how you say the fall of Iblis led people astray, the reason we have suffering
5. All on this Zoroastrian children's website: http://www.zoroastriankids.com/creation.html

This is all very suspect, if you don't mind me saying. If we examine the life of the prophet Zarathustra (who also preached strict monotheism) we see so many similarities with Muhammad. I shall quote myself from the other topic:

There was a man who, in his thirties, started receiving revelations from an angel of god. He was a good man, but those in power didn't appreciate his preaching. Those in power offered him everything, but still he kept on preaching, determined that people should know the truth.

If you thought I was talking about Zarathustra you'd be correct. But you'd also be correct if you thought I was talking about Muhammad. Isn't that interesting? When the marauders from southern Arabia invaded Persia they must have copied from the Zarathustrians. Wow!

Video for more information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAJVKbVRPZU