RE: Why the religious will never admit you won the argument (and why they don't care)
June 18, 2016 at 9:03 am
(June 17, 2016 at 6:26 pm)Veritas_Vincit Wrote: Thank you for your message, I will answer you point by point:
1. I assume NT means New Testament? The numerous contradictions between the gospel accounts for a start. Then there's the lack of ANY historical evidence outside of the Bible for the life of Jesus (the one single passage in Josephus is considered by scholars to have been a fake.)
2. Yes, this is a generalization - for example many Christians and Muslims disbelieve evolution, but anyone who has studied evolution knows that it is a fact, the term 'theory' in science has a different meaning and does not mean 'hypothesis'. Logically it is unreasonable to believe that a God exists until it has been demonstrated to exist, and since no demonstration has been made, it's an unreasonable position. However, most people don't think about it that seriously.
3. I wish they had been dismissed long ago, since they have all been repeatedly debunked. They aren't the real reasons most people hold on to their beliefs anyway, which is why most religious people don't really care that they are debunked. But they are false - name any one and I will show you.
4. I have an understanding of what science currently holds as the best explanation for the origins of life and the evolution of life to its present form - and enough to know that, for example, Creationism is utter garbage.
5. I put this down to the fact that we are still in the dark ages of civilization, still racked with superstition and only half a chromosome away from a chimpanzee... but for people who actually care about whether what they believe is true regardless of whether it is what they want to believe or what would be nice to believe, then we have some hope.
6. Concrete examples of harm caused by religion I assume you mean? Excluding Islamic Jihad? Ok:
- The Catholic Church - sheltering pedophile priests from legal justice; allying with the Nazi party and fascism in the 20th Century - the Konkordat; their stance on abortion and contraception in AIDs riddled Africa saying condoms are worse than AIDs or that they help spread it.
- The Archbishop of Cantebury, the Pope and other religious leaders world wide who, when people were murdered on the streets of Paris, said the problem was with Blasphemy - for SHAME.
- Christians in the USA trying to teach Intelligent Design psydoscientific creationist garbage to children in schools
- The forced genital mutilation of children in Jewish and Muslim communities
- Homophobia of the kind that inspires a repressed homosexual to shoot up a gay club, of which religion is the main source...
Need I go on?
1. The contradiction of the gospels are minor and expected. If there were no contradictions that would be evidence against them being true. Most scholars (including non-Christian) believe that Jesus existed, was baptized, and was crucified. The biggest piece of evidence that atheist constantly ignore is the fact there was a thriving church all across the Roman Empire within 20 years of Jesus who understood the claims of Jesus to be true--before the NT was even written. But that really doesn't matter because you said "obviously untrue". There could have been any other historical event with NO written evidence and you would have not used the phrase "obviously untrue". What did you mean?
2. Why isn't the NT evidence that God exists? If you believe the facts of the NT, it is more than reasonable to conclude God exists.
3. I've been wanting to discuss the ontological argument. Start another thread if you like. Use Plantinga or WLC's formulation since they are the more modern. Debunk away.
4. You seem to be hedging. Nothing in Christianity hangs on a literal interpretation of Gen 1.
5. You seem to think that your generation has some new information that was not previously available and your hope is since this message is true it will make headway against the "dark ages of civilization". There is nothing new and contrary to your hope, atheism is not sweeping the globe.
6. Your problems are with people. The NT is the basis for Christianity (which is the only religion I will defend). Anything not in there was added by men. And regarding those teachings, they might very well bring conflict of opinion (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) but they don't, in themselves, bring suffering. If suffering results, it is because of men's actions and/or a failure to apply the other teachings of the NT properly.On the other hand, the good Christianity has done in the last two millennium is incalculable.