Are the churches using atheists to gain more converts?

[Pat Mustard]

De iure it is, de facto... if you've ever seen the angelus on the national broadcaster or witnessed the requirement to have religious patronage in all state schools, you'd see differently.

The Irish people are secular, the state institutions still defer to John Charles McQuaid in a lot of areas.

I wasn't saying anything about Ireland but the UK which is not secular .... I merely pointed out it was secular, which it is .....

I have no inner understanding of Ireland, USA or any other secular system ....

In terms of how each state works, I'd rate the UK (minus Northern Ireland, which is a special kind of basket case) as far more secular than Ireland. In the UK you've got a state religion but it doesn't interfere in what the state does all that much, whereas in Ireland you've no state religion, but the "majority" religion still interferes far too much in too many areas (for example, our current non-abortion law says that if a woman has an abortion in Ireland she can be jailed for up to 14 years along with the doctor who performs the operation, leading to stuff like this {caution: The situation described is pretty gruesome}).

That's what happens when a country lets religion have too much power.