How Many Has God Killed?

[reverendjeremiah]

...how do you manage to interpret me as saying this?

Calm down... Im trying to figure out exactly what you are trying to put forth.

I am saying that if there is such a thing as a proof that exists independently of God's existence, then not everything that exists depends on God's existence.

So if something exists that is independent of god that can be used to prove gods existence, then there are some things that exist that do not depend on gods existence? In other words, everything is proof of gods existence?

Ergo, if the atheist demands such a proof, she is presupposing the contrary to what she is asking to be proved.

So if I demand a proof of gods existence, then I am presupposing the opposite of god existence

(For example, the atheist might demand a proof that requires a) application of laws of logic in the argument and b) does not God's existence is not presupposed in the argument.
This is a HORRIBLE list of examples that run onto each other. Example B doesnt make a coherent sentence.
[quote='Eleazar' pid='132069' dateline='1303933356']Well, for the theist, the existence of laws of logic presupposes God's existence, so the theist cannot meet the atheists demand without conceding her own position.

So you think the laws of logic presupposes gods existence, and since it is "inside" gods existence, it should be presupposed that Logic is a proof of god.

The atheist demand for such a proof begs the question by assuming that the laws of logic exist independently of God's existence.)

So you are saying that unless we atheists presuppose the existence of god in everything, such as the laws of logic, then we will force theists to give up their position by asking them for something such as "Show me logical proof that god exists". In other words, the theist would say; "Logic IS proof that god exists.", so therefore atheists are asking theists to reliquish what they consider to be an obvious evidence for gods existence in the name of using that existence to prove god exists?