(July 3, 2016 at 9:07 am)MysticKnight Wrote: If you truly didn't believe in free-will, you would not be reacting the way you are reacting.
Then you don't get it - if there is no free will then my reaction is ultimately just happening, whatever it is.
Quote:I wanted to have a honest discussion about the fact we do believe there is exact (objective) value to who we are, we act upon that, and believed in that since childhood till now. It's our nature.
That's not a fact, you just asserted it without actually demonstrating it. Several people pointed out that it's not true for them so you bald assertion that we all do this is false.
Quote:However I do realize that would not prove it to be there, it would just prove humans naturally believe in that.
Merely discussing it wouldn't prove anything - you are the one asserting it, so until you prove that it is the case, as far as the discussion goes, it isn't.
Quote:Do actually realize you know there is exact value to who you are, that it requires perception, and that perception has to be perfect judge through perfect standards, this requires a level of self-honesty that I honestly don't believe people over all here have.
You are the one being dishonest by trying to make out like we are being dishonest for not believing you - so you can shove that up your mystical arse for a start. All you have done is state some things and say that they are true, without giving anything to back it up, hence nobody believes what you say is true.
Quote:Anything can be denied right? Sure. Deny free-will even...even though you function with belief in it. The same is true, you don't believe imperfect perception can see truly who you are neither do you believe you are that perception, so what maintains your value.
Now you're just rambling...
Quote:What makes you inherit your action, what is keeping score of your deeds?
Nothing, and no-one.
Quote:Yes we can say this all unproven, but, I've reflected over this issue with myself....surely some observer does see me, something maintains my identity from baby till now.....why am I the same person...you may say we aren't the same person but when you appreciate your mom, when you have kids, etc, you will see you never assume they are a person separate from that no matter how much they changed.The rest of this is just babble mate and your final sentence where you say "We can skip the step of "how would I know" to "Do I know" sums up why nobody should believe a word you say - you have NOTHING to back up anything you say and you don't even think that's a problem.
The fact is we can say "Yes humans believe in these things naturally but they can't be justified in them...", or we can say "perhaps they can be justified in them, perhaps they can know, the only question is do I personally know these things to be true?"
You can all together skip the step of "how would I know" to "Do I know?". And if you do know, then it's good question to ask, how do you know...as that would perhaps unveil you to the truth.
If you can't explain the how or the why, and you just want people to believe on blind faith, then you are gullible and should go take a course in critical thinking, because you have no business telling anyone else that they should believe any of this unsubstantiated woo.