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9-11, give me a break.
#84
RE: 9-11, give me a break.
(September 12, 2016 at 2:45 pm)Lek Wrote: I think much of the emphasis in remembering 9-11 is in the wrong place.  The civilians who died in the towers, as a whole, were not heroes.  They were just people like the rest of us who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.  It was a tragedy for sure, and should be remembered in that light.  Some of them performed heroic acts, as did many of the responding police and firefighters, and those should be remembered for their heroism.  But another huge reason we should commemorate 9-11 is to keep the need for vigilance and security fresh in our minds.  History can teach us valuable lessons and that's why I believe it's important to commemorate events such at 9-11, Pearl Harbor and D-Day.

As far as the flag waving goes - I've never been an "America, love it or leave it" believer.  I was at a ball game in Oakland on Labor Day, which I have done zillions of times before, but for the first time I thought about how weird it was to be standing there with my hat over my heart, pledging my allegiance to a country.  My allegiance is to God and to what is right.  I've lived in three Asian countries and visited Canada and I happen to think that our country is better than those and, all-in-all, I'm happy and proud to be an American.  I think we've done more good for the world than bad and I will defend this country to death if I believe it's right to do so. There's not many countries in the world that haven't trampled on someone, but at the same time, I won't blindly pledge my allegiance to any country or human institution.

This is a great post, and the second paragraph expresses EXACTLY how I feel. 

I have no problem with patriotism, and even think it's a good thing. I like this country and I'm proud to live here. It isn't perfect, as no place is, but I still think it's a great place to live. I was born in South America and basically my whole extended family still lives there. I started my life and early childhood there, and went back to visit every year while growing up. Needless to say, I am glad I'm here in the US. 

With that all being said, I always have felt a bit strange about the "I pledge allegiance" thing. It almost feels too much like a prayer, which to me, is about God. As you said, my allegiance is to God and to what is right, and if it came down to it, I wouldn't put that aside for the sake of being patriotic.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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Messages In This Thread
9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 11, 2016 at 11:53 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 12:00 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Jesster - September 12, 2016 at 12:01 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by rexbeccarox - September 12, 2016 at 1:26 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 12, 2016 at 1:28 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 2:36 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 12, 2016 at 2:42 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 3:10 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Divinity - September 12, 2016 at 1:37 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 12, 2016 at 1:40 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Minimalist - September 12, 2016 at 1:49 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by johan - September 12, 2016 at 6:55 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Mr Greene - September 15, 2016 at 7:28 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Gawdzilla Sama - September 12, 2016 at 7:57 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 12, 2016 at 8:58 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Faith No More - September 12, 2016 at 9:03 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 12, 2016 at 1:37 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Tiberius - September 12, 2016 at 9:13 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by ApeNotKillApe - September 12, 2016 at 9:38 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 12, 2016 at 4:19 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Minimalist - September 12, 2016 at 1:13 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by CapnAwesome - September 12, 2016 at 2:24 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 4:47 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Lek - September 12, 2016 at 2:45 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Catholic_Lady - September 14, 2016 at 10:28 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 12, 2016 at 2:46 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 12, 2016 at 4:26 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 12, 2016 at 4:54 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 12, 2016 at 5:55 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 12, 2016 at 6:04 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 12, 2016 at 9:19 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Regina - September 12, 2016 at 2:51 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 12, 2016 at 2:57 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Mudhammam - September 12, 2016 at 6:10 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 12, 2016 at 6:18 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 6:20 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Mudhammam - September 12, 2016 at 8:55 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Tiberius - September 12, 2016 at 4:38 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Tiberius - September 12, 2016 at 4:57 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 12, 2016 at 5:01 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Tiberius - September 12, 2016 at 5:04 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 12, 2016 at 5:09 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 5:28 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 12, 2016 at 5:47 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 5:52 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 12, 2016 at 5:58 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 6:10 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Iroscato - September 12, 2016 at 5:21 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Cecelia - September 12, 2016 at 8:11 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Regina - September 12, 2016 at 9:13 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Seraphina - September 12, 2016 at 9:17 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Losty - September 12, 2016 at 9:30 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Regina - September 12, 2016 at 10:02 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Sterben - September 12, 2016 at 10:21 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Sterben - September 12, 2016 at 10:08 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Losty - September 12, 2016 at 10:27 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 12, 2016 at 11:26 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Losty - September 12, 2016 at 11:40 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 13, 2016 at 12:16 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 10:42 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 12, 2016 at 11:36 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 13, 2016 at 12:03 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 13, 2016 at 12:24 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 13, 2016 at 12:47 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Sterben - September 12, 2016 at 10:43 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Cecelia - September 12, 2016 at 11:34 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Sterben - September 13, 2016 at 2:25 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 10:46 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Seraphina - September 12, 2016 at 10:47 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 10:51 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Seraphina - September 12, 2016 at 10:55 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 11:02 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 12, 2016 at 11:30 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 13, 2016 at 12:21 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 13, 2016 at 12:50 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 13, 2016 at 1:01 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 13, 2016 at 12:58 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 13, 2016 at 1:15 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 13, 2016 at 1:51 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 13, 2016 at 1:08 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Cecelia - September 13, 2016 at 1:50 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 13, 2016 at 1:51 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Faith No More - September 13, 2016 at 3:13 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Sterben - September 13, 2016 at 10:33 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 2:02 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Faith No More - September 15, 2016 at 6:35 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 6:56 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Catholic_Lady - September 14, 2016 at 10:12 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 14, 2016 at 12:32 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 15, 2016 at 1:36 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 1:48 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 15, 2016 at 1:53 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 2:12 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 15, 2016 at 2:16 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Losty - September 15, 2016 at 2:33 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 2:36 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 15, 2016 at 2:37 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Losty - September 15, 2016 at 2:38 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 2:48 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 15, 2016 at 2:05 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 2:13 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 15, 2016 at 2:17 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 2:39 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Silver - September 15, 2016 at 2:40 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 2:31 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 2:38 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 2:48 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 4:16 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 5:48 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 6:46 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 1:39 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Crossless1 - September 15, 2016 at 1:58 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 2:09 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Crossless1 - September 15, 2016 at 4:00 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Angrboda - September 15, 2016 at 8:00 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 8:05 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 8:08 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Angrboda - September 15, 2016 at 8:32 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Huggy Bear - September 15, 2016 at 2:00 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by BetaOrionis - September 15, 2016 at 2:15 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Angrboda - September 15, 2016 at 3:29 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Huggy Bear - September 15, 2016 at 4:02 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by BetaOrionis - September 15, 2016 at 4:26 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Huggy Bear - September 15, 2016 at 4:44 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by BetaOrionis - September 15, 2016 at 4:52 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 15, 2016 at 5:39 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 6:52 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 15, 2016 at 6:56 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 15, 2016 at 4:03 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by BetaOrionis - September 15, 2016 at 8:33 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 15, 2016 at 8:25 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 10:32 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 1:41 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 15, 2016 at 1:43 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by FatAndFaithless - September 15, 2016 at 8:31 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 10:29 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 10:33 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by BetaOrionis - September 15, 2016 at 11:14 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Angrboda - September 15, 2016 at 11:13 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Angrboda - September 15, 2016 at 11:59 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Fidel_Castronaut - September 15, 2016 at 12:15 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 2:02 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 15, 2016 at 2:08 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 2:23 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by BetaOrionis - September 15, 2016 at 2:38 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by LastPoet - September 15, 2016 at 2:13 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Jesster - September 15, 2016 at 4:10 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Huggy Bear - September 15, 2016 at 4:56 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by BetaOrionis - September 15, 2016 at 5:03 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Huggy Bear - September 15, 2016 at 5:07 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by BetaOrionis - September 15, 2016 at 5:21 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Cecelia - September 15, 2016 at 5:46 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Huggy Bear - September 15, 2016 at 5:58 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 15, 2016 at 6:03 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Huggy Bear - September 15, 2016 at 6:10 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 15, 2016 at 6:13 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Huggy Bear - September 15, 2016 at 6:23 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by abaris - September 15, 2016 at 6:30 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 9:08 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Cecelia - September 15, 2016 at 6:07 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by BetaOrionis - September 15, 2016 at 6:19 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by BetaOrionis - September 15, 2016 at 6:28 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 7:32 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 7:04 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 9:33 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 9:41 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 9:54 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Cato - September 15, 2016 at 7:24 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Huggy Bear - September 15, 2016 at 8:15 pm
9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 15, 2016 at 8:56 pm
9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 15, 2016 at 8:58 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 16, 2016 at 12:10 am
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Catholic_Lady - September 16, 2016 at 12:56 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 16, 2016 at 2:22 pm
9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 15, 2016 at 9:02 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Huggy Bear - September 15, 2016 at 9:44 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 10:14 pm
9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 15, 2016 at 9:16 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Jesster - September 15, 2016 at 9:18 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 9:27 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Gemini - September 15, 2016 at 9:31 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 9:53 pm
9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 15, 2016 at 9:34 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Thumpalumpacus - September 15, 2016 at 9:44 pm
9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 15, 2016 at 9:45 pm
9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 15, 2016 at 9:52 pm
9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 15, 2016 at 9:55 pm
9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 15, 2016 at 10:00 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 11:17 pm
9-11, give me a break. - by LadyForCamus - September 15, 2016 at 10:46 pm
RE: 9-11, give me a break. - by Arkilogue - September 15, 2016 at 11:21 pm

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