(October 4, 2016 at 11:56 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:(October 4, 2016 at 11:44 pm)Emjay Wrote: True, it would be felt in psychological consciousness whatever form that took, but not phenomenally. Yeah I am saying nothingness... just atoms doing their clockwork universey thing but with no observers there to see it. To me it's an improvement because there are exactly the same behavioural effects as a philosophical zombie, eg I'm born at the same time etc... still type on this forum, but without any experiential components... so it would be pointless from the perspective of an observer, except in that world there wouldn't even be one to make that call. But I know I'm probably in a minority of one with this view... so I understand your view, but for me I didn't ask to exist and I'd rather I didn't, nor can I understand why I do.
But what you don't seem to understand is this is the same as talking about nothingness. The moment you start describing such an universe where no consciousness exists, you introduce yourself as an observer in that same universe, even if it is merely an idea and not something externally observed at this point. If you don't talk about it, then it doesn't exist. Existence is predicated on an observer. Without an observer, there can be no existence. There can be no talk of existence. Existence is an idea. Everything is.
Oh right... I think I see. I know there's no way I could be in such a universe... observing its nothingness... I wouldn't exist in the phenomenal sense to make that observation. I don't know what else to say really... my ideal universe wouldn't have me there to comment on it. Nonetheless it is my ideal, even if it's some sort of paradox for me to imagine it.
