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Explaining the fact that we exist
#41
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist
(October 24, 2016 at 6:42 am)OttoVonKerpen Wrote: This is a question that I wrestled with superficially when I first became an atheist. I was content with my answer to this question for a while, but after a recent discussion with a Christian friend of mine, the entire topic just became confusing to me. And, like I said in my introduction (http://atheistforums.org/thread-45867.html), I need some help when walking through difficult questions.

The question is this: "There were many transitional points in our universe's history that led to us existing. If one of them failed to produce the results that it did, we wouldn't be here, existing. Isn't it too much of a coincidence? Each transition point was against huge odds, and each of them was an extraordinary coincidence. How is it possible that we are existing against such overwhelming odds?"

I had a basic response to this like, "just because it's extremely unlikely, doesn't mean it can't happen", but I am not satisfied with the answer. Can anybody lead me through the basic thought process behind why we can exist against such overwhelming odds? I have my own thoughts, but I am willing, and needing to restart my thought process. 

Thanks!

I like to look at it this way.  Flip a coin in the air as hard as you can.  Now, once it comes to rest, imagine all the things it had to go through to land in that exact spot.  What are the chances that it would have flipped through the air exactly as it did, the exact atoms of the coin coming into contact with those exact atoms of air and coming to rest touching the exact atoms of the floor?  The chances of it happening exactly like that are so remote that there is no way one could possibly have expected it to turn out that way before flipping the coin.  The problem is you're not looking at it before the fact, you're looking at it after the fact.  At that point the "chances" that it would happen that way are completely irrelevant because it did happen that way.  What would have been different if it had happened another way?  Who knows?  Maybe it could have struck and broke a light bulb.  Maybe it could have chanced to hit a passing fly.  Maybe something totally unexpected and different could have happened, but it didn't.

So, what are the chances the universe ended up exactly as it did?  100%.  Why?  Because you're looking at it after the fact, when it did happen.  The "what are the chances" argument is a dishonest trick theists like to use to pretend that it would be impossible for things to happen exactly as they did without guidance.  The mental trickery assumes that things were intended to be exactly this way, that the way things happened is somehow special, which there is no evidence for.  Back to the coin analogy, when you are asking yourself "What are the chances the coin would fly through the air exactly like it did?" did the way it flew threw the air seem in any way special?  Did if travel exactly as you intended?  The answer to both of those is probably "no".  So do the chances of it doing exactly as it did mystify you?  Again, probably now.  But you could NEVER do it again, and that is where the trickery lies.  You're not talking about doing it again, you're talking about what already happened.  What are the chance?  It doesn't matter because it did happen and there's nothing mystical about it.
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Messages In This Thread
Explaining the fact that we exist - by OttoVonKerpen - October 24, 2016 at 6:42 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by robvalue - October 24, 2016 at 6:50 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Grandizer - October 24, 2016 at 6:52 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by robvalue - October 24, 2016 at 6:53 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by chimp3 - October 24, 2016 at 6:55 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by robvalue - October 24, 2016 at 6:55 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Gawdzilla Sama - October 24, 2016 at 7:17 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Primordial Bisque - October 24, 2016 at 10:06 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by account_inactive - October 24, 2016 at 10:24 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Whateverist - October 24, 2016 at 2:08 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Fake Messiah - October 24, 2016 at 7:31 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by robvalue - October 24, 2016 at 9:28 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Lek - October 24, 2016 at 2:59 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Arkilogue - October 24, 2016 at 3:30 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Neo-Scholastic - October 24, 2016 at 10:32 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Grandizer - October 24, 2016 at 10:39 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Neo-Scholastic - October 24, 2016 at 12:24 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by deleteduser12345 - October 24, 2016 at 2:04 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Grandizer - October 24, 2016 at 6:43 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Arkilogue - October 24, 2016 at 2:27 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Crossless1 - October 24, 2016 at 10:45 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Neo-Scholastic - October 24, 2016 at 2:26 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Crossless1 - October 24, 2016 at 4:20 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by deleteduser12345 - October 24, 2016 at 11:06 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by robvalue - October 24, 2016 at 11:32 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Whateverist - October 24, 2016 at 2:12 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by chimp3 - October 24, 2016 at 6:40 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Simon Moon - October 24, 2016 at 6:55 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Edwardo Piet - November 1, 2016 at 12:39 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Pat Mustard - November 5, 2016 at 12:38 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Primordial Bisque - October 24, 2016 at 11:46 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by robvalue - October 24, 2016 at 11:56 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Whateverist - October 24, 2016 at 2:13 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Neo-Scholastic - October 24, 2016 at 2:12 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Arkilogue - October 24, 2016 at 2:19 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Minimalist - October 24, 2016 at 2:21 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Truth_Love2016 - October 24, 2016 at 3:15 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Minimalist - October 24, 2016 at 4:10 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Ravenshire - November 5, 2016 at 1:41 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Truth_Love2016 - October 24, 2016 at 2:30 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by brewer - October 24, 2016 at 2:34 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Pat Mustard - November 5, 2016 at 7:01 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Fake Messiah - October 25, 2016 at 2:52 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by robvalue - October 25, 2016 at 3:56 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by deleteduser12345 - October 25, 2016 at 9:58 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by deleteduser12345 - October 25, 2016 at 9:57 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Minimalist - October 24, 2016 at 2:47 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Minimalist - October 24, 2016 at 3:00 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Lek - October 24, 2016 at 4:05 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Minimalist - October 24, 2016 at 4:11 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by LastPoet - October 24, 2016 at 3:28 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Asmodee - October 24, 2016 at 5:43 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by ApeNotKillApe - October 24, 2016 at 5:51 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Whateverist - October 24, 2016 at 5:54 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by robvalue - October 25, 2016 at 10:27 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by brewer - October 25, 2016 at 11:37 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Fake Messiah - October 25, 2016 at 1:59 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by TheMonster - October 25, 2016 at 8:22 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Edwardo Piet - October 26, 2016 at 10:31 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Neo-Scholastic - November 1, 2016 at 12:33 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Edwardo Piet - November 1, 2016 at 12:41 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Ravenshire - November 5, 2016 at 1:49 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Minimalist - November 1, 2016 at 12:48 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by AceBoogie - November 3, 2016 at 11:24 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by The Grand Nudger - November 4, 2016 at 7:29 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Minimalist - November 5, 2016 at 2:10 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Edwardo Piet - November 4, 2016 at 7:54 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Asmodee - November 4, 2016 at 1:01 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by Ravenshire - November 5, 2016 at 1:31 am
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by The Grand Nudger - November 5, 2016 at 12:58 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by purplepurpose - November 5, 2016 at 1:41 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by downbeatplumb - November 5, 2016 at 2:18 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by purplepurpose - November 5, 2016 at 2:29 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by The Grand Nudger - November 5, 2016 at 1:44 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by purplepurpose - November 5, 2016 at 2:02 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by The Grand Nudger - November 5, 2016 at 2:04 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by purplepurpose - November 5, 2016 at 2:22 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by The Grand Nudger - November 5, 2016 at 2:30 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by purplepurpose - November 5, 2016 at 2:54 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by The Grand Nudger - November 5, 2016 at 2:58 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by purplepurpose - November 5, 2016 at 3:11 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by The Grand Nudger - November 5, 2016 at 3:13 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by purplepurpose - November 5, 2016 at 4:05 pm
RE: Explaining the fact that we exist - by The Grand Nudger - November 5, 2016 at 4:06 pm

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