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A Muslim, a Jew, a Christian, and an atheist walk into a coffee shop...
#52
RE: A Muslim, a Jew, a Christian, and an atheist walk into a coffee shop...
(November 2, 2016 at 10:01 am)Mudhammam Wrote: In your view, it doesn't seem that one's acceptance or rejection into Heaven has as much to do with what one believes, as that which one does... Do I have that right? So, Catholic heaven just might be filled with more pagans, atheists, heretics, and even blasphemers than it is with Catholics, and the latter, although they professed faith in the Apostles and the Pope, just might predominate in hell, after the intentions and surrounding circumstances of each person are weighed... If that's the case, what was the point of the virgin birth, miracles, death, resurrection, ascension, etc.?

Most other Christian denominations (evangelicals especially) believe that all it takes for a person to "go to" Heaven when they die is to believe in Jesus. (for simplicity's sake I will talk about Heaven here as a place even though I believe it is a state of being, not a physical place). This is because they use the bible as their #1 authority, and at one point the bible does say that faith gets people saved. The problem with that is it doesn't explain what exactly this means, and there are also contradictions. There's no depth or explanation, just words on a book that has been translated a million times over. 

I'm not saying the bible isn't important and holy, but as Catholics we don't consider the bible to be the #1 authority. We consider the Church to be that. We believe Jesus left us a Church with Peter as the first pope, not just a book to follow and to interpret in a million different ways. We have church doctors and theologians who are constantly studying the bible and studying the faith and the history of the church and philosophy... and that's how we put together Church doctrines like the CCC, and how we are always tweaking it and adding to it as we continue to gain a better and better understanding of God.    

To answer your question, we believe that you have to actually be a good person at heart by following the ways of Jesus, not necessarily just simply believing that He exists as is literally written in the bible. The ways of Jesus being honesty, kindness, generosity... the corporal works of mercy, etc. You don't have to be a believer of Christ to live a life of virtue and to have a good heart. 

...But saying Heaven is full of atheists, pagans, etc, is also misleading because obviously we believe these people stop being that way once they die, especially if they are in Heaven with God. We believe everyone who is in Heaven is Christian, not necessarily because they believed in Jesus while they were alive, but because they realized it all once they died and saw Jesus, and chose to humble themselves to Him. 

Don't get me wrong, I think being a Christian in this life is still important. Because I believe it does help to set someone up for success, since we are specifically taught the virtues of goodness... and we spend this life conditioning ourselves and preparing ourselves to be humble before God and to turn ourselves over to Him when we meet Him in the next life. But that does not mean it can't happen to someone who spent this life as an atheist yet is still a perfectly fine person with a good and humble heart.  

So to answer your last question, that's^ what I think "the point" of all those things were. To help set us up for success and to help prepare us.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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Messages In This Thread
RE: A Muslim, a Jew, a Christian, and an atheist walk into a coffee shop... - by Catholic_Lady - November 2, 2016 at 1:39 pm

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