RE: On Logic and Alternate Universes
November 5, 2016 at 7:51 pm
(This post was last modified: November 5, 2016 at 7:58 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 5, 2016 at 4:09 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: If it operated by different rules then it would be true by the law of identity that it would operate by different rules which would mean it didn't entirely operate by different rules.You're doing it again...but this time, with a crazy twist, lol. Logical laws are not applicable in a hypothetical universe in which they do not apply, which was the conjecture. Take it or leave it. I think it;s ignorant too.....but that doesn't mean that I can refuse to meet it on it's own grounds while claiming to have done so. There's a word for that, you're familiar with it. You can either argue the position stated, or offer endless argument to some other position. Your call, but understand that the OP is just fucking with you, lol.
Quote:The point is that nothing can escape the law of identity because even if it could it would be true by virtue of the law of identity that it had escaped it and therefore it hadn't.-stop. The hypothetical explicitly proposes a universe that can and -does- escape logical laws, it -asks- if whatever laws it has can be logical. Do you have something to say about that, or would you rather bicker about the other thing?
Quote:No universe can exist that can escape the law of identity or can make two things and two things not be two things and two things/four things.The universe proposed can and does escape logical laws, can whatever laws it has, -in that case- be logical?
Quote:An illogical universe and ruleset cannot exist. Look how you just proved it... logically speaking if any illogical universe existed it couldn't be logical... which means it would be logical... which means there can't be illogical universes.Not the question or the proposition, not even remotely.
Quote:Note also that it's called a "logical contradiction" and not an illogical contradiction.
If the law identity was false it would mean that it would be false which would be true by virtue of the law of identity and thereby it wouldn't be false. See the paradox.
If the law of identity was false it would mean if something existed it wouldn't be true to say that it existed. Which means something can't exist without the law of identity (or not exist without the law of identity... but nothing can not exist anyways because then it would be something rather than nothing). If there were illogical universes it would be true logically speaking that those universes would be illogical and therefore they wouldn't be illogical they'd be logical.
No one's discussing whether or not the law of identity is false. The law of identity is true, here, in th OP's hypothetical...it simply doesn't exist in that other place. It has it's own laws. Goblygoop. The op wishes to evade logical constrictions by invoking "goblygoop"...and then -call- that evasion, call goblygoop, "logical". That is the question asked, and the argument implied. That a set of illogical rules called "goblygoop" - are logical. Do you have anything to say about that?
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