[quote='duck101' pid='145215' dateline='1307991710']
Q's from a theist
Hi, I am an agnostic theist that is looking to get a better understanding of atheists. Where I live there are very few atheists, but I assume there to be some closeted atheists. Anyways the few atheists I have had conversations with would be the kind of people that you guys would probably say give atheism a bad name. Their favorite way to start a conversation about beliefs usually begins with “you really believe in a mystical being in the sky”. They have no problem in proudly proclaiming that the TOE proves atheism to be the truth. I know all atheists are not like this and that is why I’m here. I’m looking for some educated atheists/agnostics to answer a few of my questions so I can get a better idea of your side. If you could answer some of these questions for me I would greatly appreciate it. I have always wondered why some people end up as theists and some as atheists.
Environment:
1. What is the predominate belief of your family and friends?
A. I come from a mixed family of beliefs, my Mum was raised catholic and my Dad protestant, i'm christened protestant also, as the time of my birth (1975) in the northwest of england, demanded it because of local attitudes of the time.
2. What is your general location? (If U.S. please use northwest, northeast, etc.)
A. See above.
3. Have you changed your beliefs in the past?
A. I didn't have any to change.
4. What is your highest level of education?
A. G.C.S.E passes in English, Geology, Geography, Modular Sciences (combined course work(s) of Chemistry, Biology, Physics etc). Astronomy in college at age 17 (dropped out as it seemed to be astronomy for absolute idiot beginners), back to college in my late 20s to do sound engineering and production and an introductary counselling course with a view to working with kids at risk or living with drug and /or alcohol/sexual and violent abuse.
Cosmology/Physics:
5. Many people have argued that the “big bang” implies a finite universe. Some people (myself included) believe that a finite universe tends to have more theistic leanings. How would you respond to this?
Ex- I believe that we are one of many universes.
Ex- I do not believe in the “big bang”.
A. Whether there was a "bang" or not is really open for debate. If you do some basic research you'll find that, It (the visible universe) is expanding from a single point, fact. If it banged, mearly appeared neatly from some other state and then expanded, came from membranes in some kind of hyperspace (m-theory, supersymmetry and infinite universe models), or something not discovered or postulated yet is open for debate. It's thought provoking and wonderous to even be able to ask questions like these, that's the esscence of science for me, "belief" is not required or recommended.
6. If you have not already answered above- do you believe in a finite or eternal universe?
7. How would you respond to the fine tuning argument?
A. Please don't think this is a cop out answer, but, for me, the question itself is a cop out.
For me, it smacks of the torid idea that the universe is here and tuned for the sake of us, and our existance placed firmly in the centre of everything that happened and will happen, which is utter nonsense. Thats anthropomorphising the universe itself, i can't articulate how much i hate this poisonous idea. We would need a whole new website and forum for me to exhaust myself of that one.
Biology:
8. Do you believe in IDT (Intelligent Design Theory), TOE (Theory of Evolution), or other? (Seems like a weird question but there are some atheists that believe that we were designed by aliens)
Ex- I believe in neo- Darwinism.
A. The Theory of Evolution is so called as is the Theory of Relativity, this is a common history denier bulletpoint my fellow freethinkers, and as you probably know, Relativity is real or your mobile phone wouldn't work. Still called a theory tho it is actually scientific fact. Evolution has been proven, again, do your own unbaised research, google mitochondrial eve for a start. Its still called The Theory of Evolution, tho it is now a proven undeniable fact. The Theory of Gravity? Wanna test that one? I do have a few fun suggestions for the deniers if they're up for some messy deaths.
9. Based on the question above, what would you say are the general points that back up your belief in this?
Ex- Fossil record, embryology, etc.
10. How does a belief in [response above] relate to an atheist/agnostic belief?
Ex- If our origins can be explained in a naturalistic way then I believe the origins of the universe can be explained in a naturalistic way too.
Ex- My belief in [response above] is not related to my atheist/ agnostic beliefs.
A. At the risk of repeating myself and sounding rude and cynical (sorry, i'm English), belief, again, in my understanding isn't required, but in the spirit of the questions i would have to say yes, fossil record and embryology, geneology, physics etc are all overwhelming evidence to me, and anyone else i know free of a dogmatic upbringing. I dont believe these things because i'm an atheist or whatever you would label me, i accept them because the imperical data and evidence is so strong.
Other:
10. Do you believe that morals are relative/preference? Please Explain
A. No, morals are not relative or a preference, i think that most normally programmed human beings have enough empathy to not rape and kill old ladies, we are a social animal, that behaviour, even on a fundamental level is genetic. That is, minus a belief system that raises the believers' importance or race above that of others, or personal and social reasons/situations that allow the breakdown of empathy or common sense.
11. Is your belief partly due to something that you may not be able to explain to others?
Ex- I have had numerous events occur in my life that are partly responsible for my belief.
Ex- I don’t know how to explain it. It seems almost as if it’s instinct… it just seems right to me.
A. No.
Again I’m not trying to be nosy. I just want to get a better understanding of beliefs that run quite contradictive to mine. Please don’t attack my belief; I respect your beliefs and I hope that you respect mine. If you have any questions for me then feel free to ask. Thanks for taking the time to help me with some of my questions. If you would like me to elaborate on any of the Q's please respond accordingly. If this is in the wrong section I am very sorry.
Q's from a theist
Hi, I am an agnostic theist that is looking to get a better understanding of atheists. Where I live there are very few atheists, but I assume there to be some closeted atheists. Anyways the few atheists I have had conversations with would be the kind of people that you guys would probably say give atheism a bad name. Their favorite way to start a conversation about beliefs usually begins with “you really believe in a mystical being in the sky”. They have no problem in proudly proclaiming that the TOE proves atheism to be the truth. I know all atheists are not like this and that is why I’m here. I’m looking for some educated atheists/agnostics to answer a few of my questions so I can get a better idea of your side. If you could answer some of these questions for me I would greatly appreciate it. I have always wondered why some people end up as theists and some as atheists.
Environment:
1. What is the predominate belief of your family and friends?
A. I come from a mixed family of beliefs, my Mum was raised catholic and my Dad protestant, i'm christened protestant also, as the time of my birth (1975) in the northwest of england, demanded it because of local attitudes of the time.
2. What is your general location? (If U.S. please use northwest, northeast, etc.)
A. See above.
3. Have you changed your beliefs in the past?
A. I didn't have any to change.
4. What is your highest level of education?
A. G.C.S.E passes in English, Geology, Geography, Modular Sciences (combined course work(s) of Chemistry, Biology, Physics etc). Astronomy in college at age 17 (dropped out as it seemed to be astronomy for absolute idiot beginners), back to college in my late 20s to do sound engineering and production and an introductary counselling course with a view to working with kids at risk or living with drug and /or alcohol/sexual and violent abuse.
Cosmology/Physics:
5. Many people have argued that the “big bang” implies a finite universe. Some people (myself included) believe that a finite universe tends to have more theistic leanings. How would you respond to this?
Ex- I believe that we are one of many universes.
Ex- I do not believe in the “big bang”.
A. Whether there was a "bang" or not is really open for debate. If you do some basic research you'll find that, It (the visible universe) is expanding from a single point, fact. If it banged, mearly appeared neatly from some other state and then expanded, came from membranes in some kind of hyperspace (m-theory, supersymmetry and infinite universe models), or something not discovered or postulated yet is open for debate. It's thought provoking and wonderous to even be able to ask questions like these, that's the esscence of science for me, "belief" is not required or recommended.
6. If you have not already answered above- do you believe in a finite or eternal universe?
7. How would you respond to the fine tuning argument?
A. Please don't think this is a cop out answer, but, for me, the question itself is a cop out.
For me, it smacks of the torid idea that the universe is here and tuned for the sake of us, and our existance placed firmly in the centre of everything that happened and will happen, which is utter nonsense. Thats anthropomorphising the universe itself, i can't articulate how much i hate this poisonous idea. We would need a whole new website and forum for me to exhaust myself of that one.
Biology:
8. Do you believe in IDT (Intelligent Design Theory), TOE (Theory of Evolution), or other? (Seems like a weird question but there are some atheists that believe that we were designed by aliens)
Ex- I believe in neo- Darwinism.
A. The Theory of Evolution is so called as is the Theory of Relativity, this is a common history denier bulletpoint my fellow freethinkers, and as you probably know, Relativity is real or your mobile phone wouldn't work. Still called a theory tho it is actually scientific fact. Evolution has been proven, again, do your own unbaised research, google mitochondrial eve for a start. Its still called The Theory of Evolution, tho it is now a proven undeniable fact. The Theory of Gravity? Wanna test that one? I do have a few fun suggestions for the deniers if they're up for some messy deaths.
9. Based on the question above, what would you say are the general points that back up your belief in this?
Ex- Fossil record, embryology, etc.
10. How does a belief in [response above] relate to an atheist/agnostic belief?
Ex- If our origins can be explained in a naturalistic way then I believe the origins of the universe can be explained in a naturalistic way too.
Ex- My belief in [response above] is not related to my atheist/ agnostic beliefs.
A. At the risk of repeating myself and sounding rude and cynical (sorry, i'm English), belief, again, in my understanding isn't required, but in the spirit of the questions i would have to say yes, fossil record and embryology, geneology, physics etc are all overwhelming evidence to me, and anyone else i know free of a dogmatic upbringing. I dont believe these things because i'm an atheist or whatever you would label me, i accept them because the imperical data and evidence is so strong.
Other:
10. Do you believe that morals are relative/preference? Please Explain
A. No, morals are not relative or a preference, i think that most normally programmed human beings have enough empathy to not rape and kill old ladies, we are a social animal, that behaviour, even on a fundamental level is genetic. That is, minus a belief system that raises the believers' importance or race above that of others, or personal and social reasons/situations that allow the breakdown of empathy or common sense.
11. Is your belief partly due to something that you may not be able to explain to others?
Ex- I have had numerous events occur in my life that are partly responsible for my belief.
Ex- I don’t know how to explain it. It seems almost as if it’s instinct… it just seems right to me.
A. No.
Again I’m not trying to be nosy. I just want to get a better understanding of beliefs that run quite contradictive to mine. Please don’t attack my belief; I respect your beliefs and I hope that you respect mine. If you have any questions for me then feel free to ask. Thanks for taking the time to help me with some of my questions. If you would like me to elaborate on any of the Q's please respond accordingly. If this is in the wrong section I am very sorry.