RE: Q's from a theist
June 13, 2011 at 7:46 pm
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2011 at 8:35 pm by duck101.)
Okay thanks everyone for your responses. @ lilphil1989 I'm just going to answer a few of your Q's real quick.
"5. I don't see how a finite universe implies the existence of a god that gets involved in human lives. That seems like a complete non-sequitir to me. Could you explain your reasoning?"
Okay I'm probably not the best person to explain this but I'll do my best. If the universe (not taking into account the multi universe idea) is finite then it must have had a beginning... right? So if something has a beginning then something must bring it into existence. Well that's the idea anyways. Some people prefer to replace "God" with force, but I think that's just a way of avoiding using the word "God". So I will admit myself that I have not explored every idea related to this (that's kind of why I'm asking). I'm sure you probably know the story about Albert Einstein. He fudged his numbers because he didn't like the implications that come with an expanding universe. Then eventually he came to terms with it, but he always made sure to make clear that he didn't believe in a personal God (hope I got my story right... correct me if I'm wrong). So basically what I'm trying to get at is that in some lines of reasoning, a finite universe tends to imply that some force/deity was at work. I'm not too familiar with dawkins works, but his more naturalistic idea is quite interesting I must admit.
"7. There are many "fine-tuning" arguments. Some of them rely on misconcepts about physics (or in the case of some ID proponents, straight up lies), some are laughable. What particular fine-tuning arguments are you referring to?"
Thanks for asking. Well my numbers are all messed up so I'll do my best. So basically there are some 30+ constants that are just finely tuned for our existence. If any of these were just a little off we would not have life (at least as we know it). So I've had it explained to me kind of like thinking of dials. Let’s say each dial represents a constant, on each dial there are 60 "clicks". Each dial must be exactly on the right point. So with my thing I just made up the chances of each dial being turned exactly so would be 1/60 to the 30th power. So the chances would be very small of such an event occurring. Some atheists counter this argument by saying if there is an infinite number of universes eventually you would have one that would be finely tuned. So I was just trying to see ideas people believe in that are adequate for explaining this. Did I answer your Question?
"That really doesn't follow. But I'm sure you know that. Are you trying to trick someone into saying something stupid?"
Nope, not trying to trick anyone. I just listed some response examples so people kind of know where I'm going with the question. To be honest though, there are some people that have made that argument to me.
Thanks for noticing my numbering flaws
Btw I think that's a very good point about me answering my own questions. I'm not feeling very well right now, but I'll try to have it up before the nights end; it will probably take me a little while I will make sure to answer "Which particular theistic entity(s) do you believe in and why? Why do you not believe in any of the others?” Sorry I'm not trying to back out of anything, but I'm feeling very dizzy right now.
"5. I don't see how a finite universe implies the existence of a god that gets involved in human lives. That seems like a complete non-sequitir to me. Could you explain your reasoning?"
Okay I'm probably not the best person to explain this but I'll do my best. If the universe (not taking into account the multi universe idea) is finite then it must have had a beginning... right? So if something has a beginning then something must bring it into existence. Well that's the idea anyways. Some people prefer to replace "God" with force, but I think that's just a way of avoiding using the word "God". So I will admit myself that I have not explored every idea related to this (that's kind of why I'm asking). I'm sure you probably know the story about Albert Einstein. He fudged his numbers because he didn't like the implications that come with an expanding universe. Then eventually he came to terms with it, but he always made sure to make clear that he didn't believe in a personal God (hope I got my story right... correct me if I'm wrong). So basically what I'm trying to get at is that in some lines of reasoning, a finite universe tends to imply that some force/deity was at work. I'm not too familiar with dawkins works, but his more naturalistic idea is quite interesting I must admit.
"7. There are many "fine-tuning" arguments. Some of them rely on misconcepts about physics (or in the case of some ID proponents, straight up lies), some are laughable. What particular fine-tuning arguments are you referring to?"
Thanks for asking. Well my numbers are all messed up so I'll do my best. So basically there are some 30+ constants that are just finely tuned for our existence. If any of these were just a little off we would not have life (at least as we know it). So I've had it explained to me kind of like thinking of dials. Let’s say each dial represents a constant, on each dial there are 60 "clicks". Each dial must be exactly on the right point. So with my thing I just made up the chances of each dial being turned exactly so would be 1/60 to the 30th power. So the chances would be very small of such an event occurring. Some atheists counter this argument by saying if there is an infinite number of universes eventually you would have one that would be finely tuned. So I was just trying to see ideas people believe in that are adequate for explaining this. Did I answer your Question?
"That really doesn't follow. But I'm sure you know that. Are you trying to trick someone into saying something stupid?"
Nope, not trying to trick anyone. I just listed some response examples so people kind of know where I'm going with the question. To be honest though, there are some people that have made that argument to me.
Thanks for noticing my numbering flaws
Btw I think that's a very good point about me answering my own questions. I'm not feeling very well right now, but I'll try to have it up before the nights end; it will probably take me a little while
I will make sure to answer "Which particular theistic entity(s) do you believe in and why? Why do you not believe in any of the others?” Sorry I'm not trying to back out of anything, but I'm feeling very dizzy right now.
