RE: Q's from a theist
June 13, 2011 at 11:26 pm
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2011 at 11:56 pm by duck101.)
So I have noticed that a lot of you have really made clear that you don’t have a belief regarding this, and that atheism is having a lack of a belief. I actually have a recent story that regards to this. This year in my science classes we worked a lot on dichotomous keys. On one of these dichotomous keys I was appalled to see that I had been marked off for not mentioning that an organism lacks a physical characteristic. I went up to my teacher and asked “why should I be marked off because I didn’t mention that an organism lacks a certain characteristic? Isn’t that a little vague; I could mention a lot of things that an organism lacks?”. Okay well I didn’t get very far in my argument, but I think it’s funny that I was actually arguing from more so your side of things. My teacher insisted that not having a physical characteristic is in fact a physical characteristic (seems more like opinion to me). I also struggled to get around the idea that being sessile (non-movement) is a form of movement. So what I am getting at is that I think it is more so opinion. Some may argue that not believing in something is still a belief. So for the sake of not arguing over something silly like this, please replace “belief” with “non-belief” if you so wish to do so.
As requested by a user I have answered my own questions that I have asked you guys
Environment:
1. What is the predominate belief of your family and friends?
One side of my family is mainly theist where as the other side is probably mainly agnostic. My friends are mainly theist with a few agnostics.
2. What is your general location? (If U.S. please use northwest, northeast, etc.)
U.S. (northwest)
3. Have you changed your beliefs in the past?
No I have always had a theist belief. The only difference is that at a younger age it was mainly due to ignorance without knowing what I really believed in. At around the age of 13 I started to get really interested in the origins debate. I started reading information and I became instantly hooked. Since then I make sure to commit at least 30 min. a day reading information about the different beliefs/ideas. More recently I have begun discussing with others their beliefs and my beliefs. I have a peer in my class that is in direct contrast to me. We challenge each other to read information regarding the others belief. We both haven’t budged at all, but I think it is important to look at something from all sides.
4. What is your highest level of education?
I can’t really answer this question as I still have one year left in high school. The closest thing I could say to answer the question is that I am an honor student (top 10% of class). I look forward to pursuing a career in energy engineering, but obviously haven’t gotten there yet
Cosmology/Physics:
5. Many people have argued that the “big bang” implies a finite universe. Some people (myself included) believe that a finite universe tends to have more theistic leanings. How would you respond to this?
As I have probably mentioned in some of my other posts, I believe that big bang implies a finite universe. I still have a lot of study in this area. Unfortunately right now I have to go more to authority for why I believe this. If something is finite then I think this implies a beginning.
6. If you have not already answered above- do you believe in a finite or eternal universe?
Finite
7. How would you respond to the fine tuning argument?
Interesting idea, but still need more experience in physics (among other things). To expand upon this idea I wonder how far exactly the constants can be off before everything as we know it is gone. For example if one constant was off by maybe a few percent would we still be here.
Biology:
8. Do you believe in IDT (Intelligent Design Theory), TOE (Theory of Evolution), or other? (Seems like a weird question but there are some atheists that believe that we were designed by aliens)
Here’s where things get really weird. At the very least I do not believe in a purely “naturalistic” explanation as far as the TOE goes. Then again if I was designing something why would I go through the trouble of evolution. I have read quite a bit on the IDT and I must say it’s very interesting to say the least. I know you guys will tear me apart for any credit given to the IDT, but I think it brings up some interesting points (for example “irreducible complexity”). I have read the criticisms that it receives, but I still think it has its use. I realize that there may not be a system that can completely fit the definition of being irreducible complex. I admit that it is hard to prove with absolute certainty that a mutation did not have an immediate use. With that being said, I think it is safe to say that some biological systems at some point in time needed to conserve certain mutations that had no immediate benefit. So lets say that a biological system needs to conserve 50 mutations before it has any benefit, as the number of mutations needed goes up the chances go down. I realize that no matter how bad the chances of something occurring it is really not evidence that should be used but I think in some instances mathematics may provide its use. Again I’m not saying that just because there are bad chances of something occurring that something cannot occur, but at some point I think it raises a few eyebrows. I think that evolution (by definition) is fact, but I do not believe that the TOE/neo Darwinism is fact.
9. Based on the question above, what would you say are the general points that back up your belief in this?
I still need to look into this further before I know exactly what I believe.
10. How does a belief in [response above] relate to an atheist/agnostic belief?
I consider my beliefs/non beliefs in IDT/TOE to be independent of my beliefs in generic theism. I see both sides of it. I do not think IDT or TOE is really good evidence for or against a deity.
Other:
11. Do you believe that morals are relative/preference? Please Explain
I believe that morals aren’t relative or preference. We may disagree on certain things, but that doesn’t change what is right and wrong.
12. Is your belief partly due to something that you may not be able to explain to others?
Yes. If certain events didn’t occur in my life I may have been more likely to hold a deist belief. To be fair I try not to let things like this affect my generic theistic beliefs, but they become more prominent as you dig deeper into my theistic beliefs. however, In no way are my general theistic beliefs based on information that is not accessible to the general public.
Another user (lilphil1989 )asked me “You describe yourself as a theist. Which particular theistic entity(s) do you believe in and why? Why do you not believe in any of the others?”
To be honest this is a very hard question for me. I would say my beliefs lean more towards the core beliefs shared by Christians. I consider “God” to be more of an idea so it’s hard to describe it as if its some tangible object that I can describe. Of course the Christian God image is usually the one that is burned into our minds, but I don't necessarily view God as that. How I describe the God I believe in is like thinking of a new color that has never been discovered; In other works it can't really be done. I will never know for sure that I’m right and other religions are wrong. I consider my belief in general theism to not be based on faith; my beliefs as you dig deeper (religion) are more based on what you would call “faith”.
@ lilphil1989 - btw I think that's really cool that you're pursuing a masters in physics. It's cool to talk with someone that is specializing in an area of study that is in some ways related to this big old question of origins.
As requested by a user I have answered my own questions that I have asked you guys
Environment:
1. What is the predominate belief of your family and friends?
One side of my family is mainly theist where as the other side is probably mainly agnostic. My friends are mainly theist with a few agnostics.
2. What is your general location? (If U.S. please use northwest, northeast, etc.)
U.S. (northwest)
3. Have you changed your beliefs in the past?
No I have always had a theist belief. The only difference is that at a younger age it was mainly due to ignorance without knowing what I really believed in. At around the age of 13 I started to get really interested in the origins debate. I started reading information and I became instantly hooked. Since then I make sure to commit at least 30 min. a day reading information about the different beliefs/ideas. More recently I have begun discussing with others their beliefs and my beliefs. I have a peer in my class that is in direct contrast to me. We challenge each other to read information regarding the others belief. We both haven’t budged at all, but I think it is important to look at something from all sides.
4. What is your highest level of education?
I can’t really answer this question as I still have one year left in high school. The closest thing I could say to answer the question is that I am an honor student (top 10% of class). I look forward to pursuing a career in energy engineering, but obviously haven’t gotten there yet
Cosmology/Physics:
5. Many people have argued that the “big bang” implies a finite universe. Some people (myself included) believe that a finite universe tends to have more theistic leanings. How would you respond to this?
As I have probably mentioned in some of my other posts, I believe that big bang implies a finite universe. I still have a lot of study in this area. Unfortunately right now I have to go more to authority for why I believe this. If something is finite then I think this implies a beginning.
6. If you have not already answered above- do you believe in a finite or eternal universe?
Finite
7. How would you respond to the fine tuning argument?
Interesting idea, but still need more experience in physics (among other things). To expand upon this idea I wonder how far exactly the constants can be off before everything as we know it is gone. For example if one constant was off by maybe a few percent would we still be here.
Biology:
8. Do you believe in IDT (Intelligent Design Theory), TOE (Theory of Evolution), or other? (Seems like a weird question but there are some atheists that believe that we were designed by aliens)
Here’s where things get really weird. At the very least I do not believe in a purely “naturalistic” explanation as far as the TOE goes. Then again if I was designing something why would I go through the trouble of evolution. I have read quite a bit on the IDT and I must say it’s very interesting to say the least. I know you guys will tear me apart for any credit given to the IDT, but I think it brings up some interesting points (for example “irreducible complexity”). I have read the criticisms that it receives, but I still think it has its use. I realize that there may not be a system that can completely fit the definition of being irreducible complex. I admit that it is hard to prove with absolute certainty that a mutation did not have an immediate use. With that being said, I think it is safe to say that some biological systems at some point in time needed to conserve certain mutations that had no immediate benefit. So lets say that a biological system needs to conserve 50 mutations before it has any benefit, as the number of mutations needed goes up the chances go down. I realize that no matter how bad the chances of something occurring it is really not evidence that should be used but I think in some instances mathematics may provide its use. Again I’m not saying that just because there are bad chances of something occurring that something cannot occur, but at some point I think it raises a few eyebrows. I think that evolution (by definition) is fact, but I do not believe that the TOE/neo Darwinism is fact.
9. Based on the question above, what would you say are the general points that back up your belief in this?
I still need to look into this further before I know exactly what I believe.
10. How does a belief in [response above] relate to an atheist/agnostic belief?
I consider my beliefs/non beliefs in IDT/TOE to be independent of my beliefs in generic theism. I see both sides of it. I do not think IDT or TOE is really good evidence for or against a deity.
Other:
11. Do you believe that morals are relative/preference? Please Explain
I believe that morals aren’t relative or preference. We may disagree on certain things, but that doesn’t change what is right and wrong.
12. Is your belief partly due to something that you may not be able to explain to others?
Yes. If certain events didn’t occur in my life I may have been more likely to hold a deist belief. To be fair I try not to let things like this affect my generic theistic beliefs, but they become more prominent as you dig deeper into my theistic beliefs. however, In no way are my general theistic beliefs based on information that is not accessible to the general public.
Another user (lilphil1989 )asked me “You describe yourself as a theist. Which particular theistic entity(s) do you believe in and why? Why do you not believe in any of the others?”
To be honest this is a very hard question for me. I would say my beliefs lean more towards the core beliefs shared by Christians. I consider “God” to be more of an idea so it’s hard to describe it as if its some tangible object that I can describe. Of course the Christian God image is usually the one that is burned into our minds, but I don't necessarily view God as that. How I describe the God I believe in is like thinking of a new color that has never been discovered; In other works it can't really be done. I will never know for sure that I’m right and other religions are wrong. I consider my belief in general theism to not be based on faith; my beliefs as you dig deeper (religion) are more based on what you would call “faith”.
@ lilphil1989 - btw I think that's really cool that you're pursuing a masters in physics. It's cool to talk with someone that is specializing in an area of study that is in some ways related to this big old question of origins.
