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Theists: would you view the truth?
#88
RE: Theists: would you view the truth?
(December 2, 2016 at 10:27 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but you're implicitly saying that miracles can only ever be natural in occurrence, yes? I'd have to agree with you, because to my mind I don't think God would fiddle with physics etc. but at the same time, isn't this a double edged sword? What would tip the event over to a 'supernatural cause', if indeed it can be called that, since causally speaking there is admittedly a gap?

Thank you for your considerate reply.  Smile I wouldn't say "only ever" but rather "sometimes maybe". An unpredictable yet anticipated, highly convenient and perfectly timed earthquake is pretty miraculous. Likewise, walking on water most certainly defies our current understanding of physics. It is conceivable that a future technology would enable such an ability. Even in that case, the ability to employ that technology in 30 A.D. would still be, well, pretty miraculous. Or, to wildly speculate for a moment, some bizarre quantum event could in some way and against all odds, have made firm water below Jesus's feet in precisely the direction he intended to travel. More to the point it isn't about how He did it. What matters is why He did it. That's all I really hoped to say.

But returning back to the question of how, what I am saying is that the author and sustainer of the universe could organize His creation in such a way that these kinds of natural yet fortuitous events work towards whatever purpose He desires. That is the doctrine of Divine Providence which is very commonly found in Christianity. Granted I have taken the concept to the extreme although not outside its parameters.

What I have great difficulty conceiving, and most honest believers will admit, is why things could not also be organized to eliminate all the pains and miseries of living. Then again, miracles seem more like engineering solutions, which generally don't apply to spiritual problems.
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Messages In This Thread
Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - November 27, 2016 at 6:17 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by purplepurpose - November 27, 2016 at 8:11 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - November 27, 2016 at 9:45 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Aoi Magi - November 27, 2016 at 8:24 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by purplepurpose - November 27, 2016 at 8:33 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - November 27, 2016 at 10:22 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by downbeatplumb - November 27, 2016 at 11:36 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - November 27, 2016 at 1:16 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Minimalist - November 27, 2016 at 2:47 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - November 27, 2016 at 3:45 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by brewer - November 27, 2016 at 11:41 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Crossless1 - November 27, 2016 at 12:01 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Whateverist - November 27, 2016 at 12:06 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - November 27, 2016 at 12:45 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Edwardo Piet - November 27, 2016 at 2:07 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Edwardo Piet - November 27, 2016 at 9:31 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - November 28, 2016 at 12:12 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - November 28, 2016 at 1:29 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by purplepurpose - November 28, 2016 at 8:28 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - November 29, 2016 at 11:45 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Faith No More - November 29, 2016 at 2:25 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - November 29, 2016 at 4:05 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Crossless1 - November 29, 2016 at 4:35 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Simon Moon - November 29, 2016 at 4:36 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Edwardo Piet - November 30, 2016 at 12:05 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Edwardo Piet - November 29, 2016 at 5:20 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Angrboda - November 29, 2016 at 8:32 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - November 30, 2016 at 10:44 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Angrboda - November 30, 2016 at 5:59 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - November 30, 2016 at 6:34 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Angrboda - November 30, 2016 at 10:06 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 1, 2016 at 11:51 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by AceBoogie - December 6, 2016 at 9:10 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Angrboda - December 6, 2016 at 9:45 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Minimalist - November 28, 2016 at 12:30 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - November 28, 2016 at 12:45 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by ignoramus - November 30, 2016 at 6:11 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - November 28, 2016 at 2:25 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Minimalist - November 29, 2016 at 4:53 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - November 29, 2016 at 5:30 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Minimalist - November 29, 2016 at 9:06 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - November 30, 2016 at 6:45 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Minimalist - November 28, 2016 at 1:41 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - November 28, 2016 at 2:42 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - November 28, 2016 at 3:25 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - November 28, 2016 at 9:08 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - November 29, 2016 at 2:38 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Edwardo Piet - November 29, 2016 at 11:55 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - November 29, 2016 at 11:58 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by PETE_ROSE - November 29, 2016 at 12:22 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Edwardo Piet - November 29, 2016 at 12:47 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Doubting Thomas - November 29, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by PETE_ROSE - November 29, 2016 at 1:00 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Edwardo Piet - November 29, 2016 at 1:28 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by John V - November 29, 2016 at 1:17 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Doubting Thomas - November 30, 2016 at 6:03 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 1, 2016 at 1:58 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - November 29, 2016 at 2:13 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by RoadRunner79 - November 29, 2016 at 5:11 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - November 29, 2016 at 5:13 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Edwardo Piet - November 30, 2016 at 12:09 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Catholic_Lady - November 30, 2016 at 11:54 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by ignoramus - December 2, 2016 at 6:21 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Catholic_Lady - December 2, 2016 at 12:04 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Minimalist - December 1, 2016 at 2:23 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 1, 2016 at 3:54 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - December 1, 2016 at 6:16 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 1, 2016 at 7:44 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 1, 2016 at 9:38 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 1, 2016 at 12:20 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 1, 2016 at 1:09 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 1, 2016 at 2:51 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by RoadRunner79 - December 1, 2016 at 3:31 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 1, 2016 at 3:57 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by RoadRunner79 - December 1, 2016 at 4:35 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 1, 2016 at 4:03 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 1, 2016 at 6:17 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Edwardo Piet - December 1, 2016 at 6:33 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 1, 2016 at 9:57 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Edwardo Piet - December 1, 2016 at 10:13 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 1, 2016 at 10:15 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 2, 2016 at 6:25 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 2, 2016 at 7:21 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 2, 2016 at 8:02 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 2, 2016 at 9:54 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - December 2, 2016 at 11:10 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 2, 2016 at 10:01 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 2, 2016 at 12:18 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 3, 2016 at 12:11 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by FallentoReason - December 2, 2016 at 10:27 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 2, 2016 at 11:49 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 2, 2016 at 10:58 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by RoadRunner79 - December 4, 2016 at 2:20 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Drich - December 2, 2016 at 4:25 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Minimalist - December 2, 2016 at 4:28 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 2, 2016 at 4:30 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Drich - December 5, 2016 at 10:46 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 5, 2016 at 1:44 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 5, 2016 at 2:18 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Angrboda - December 6, 2016 at 8:28 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 3, 2016 at 5:36 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 3, 2016 at 6:11 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 3, 2016 at 7:04 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 3, 2016 at 10:19 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 3, 2016 at 10:25 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 3, 2016 at 10:29 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 3, 2016 at 10:44 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by dyresand - December 3, 2016 at 10:47 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 3, 2016 at 10:58 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 3, 2016 at 11:21 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Ignorant - December 3, 2016 at 11:03 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 3, 2016 at 11:17 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 3, 2016 at 11:20 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 3, 2016 at 12:48 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 3, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 3, 2016 at 1:13 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 3, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 3, 2016 at 2:09 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Minimalist - December 4, 2016 at 2:23 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 5, 2016 at 1:32 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Drich - December 6, 2016 at 10:17 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - December 5, 2016 at 1:36 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 5, 2016 at 1:39 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Minimalist - December 5, 2016 at 1:40 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - December 5, 2016 at 1:50 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 5, 2016 at 1:53 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Drich - December 6, 2016 at 10:25 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 6, 2016 at 11:26 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Drich - December 12, 2016 at 9:58 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Whateverist - December 12, 2016 at 10:14 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Crossless1 - December 12, 2016 at 5:21 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - December 5, 2016 at 1:58 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 6, 2016 at 10:04 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 6, 2016 at 10:23 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - December 6, 2016 at 10:30 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by John V - December 6, 2016 at 1:14 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by John V - December 8, 2016 at 11:36 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 6, 2016 at 11:05 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by AceBoogie - December 6, 2016 at 3:42 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 8, 2016 at 12:39 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by AceBoogie - December 8, 2016 at 5:10 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 12, 2016 at 12:32 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 12, 2016 at 3:17 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - December 12, 2016 at 9:47 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Cyberman - December 12, 2016 at 10:04 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 12, 2016 at 1:19 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Whateverist - December 12, 2016 at 4:13 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 12, 2016 at 3:48 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Drich - December 14, 2016 at 6:24 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 12, 2016 at 4:23 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by vorlon13 - December 12, 2016 at 7:45 pm
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 13, 2016 at 4:21 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by robvalue - December 15, 2016 at 5:09 am
RE: Theists: would you view the truth? - by Godschild - December 25, 2016 at 2:29 am

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