RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
December 19, 2016 at 8:08 am
(December 19, 2016 at 7:51 am)Ignorant Wrote:Now now... You said "necessary being". no backsies!(December 19, 2016 at 7:49 am)pocaracas Wrote: The thing being an assumption is twofold, here:
1. The being - why must the necessary creator/starter/initiator/spark/mover/etc be a being? Automatically, you are assuming consciousness, awareness, intent. [1]
2. Name it a god. God, as a word, carries a huge baggage. Since time immemorial, mankind has worshiped gods. They, the gods, have been many things, but typically, they are rulers, creators, fathers, mothers, generators of natural forces. And mankind still, to this day, retains the feeling that such god(s) need(s) us to kneel to them, as if they're petty human rulers; or grovel for their love as if they are petty human parents; or praise them as if they're petty human heroes. If there is an ultimate creator entity, it should care little for our groveling, our love, our worship, our praise. Much as you care little for an ant's groveling, love, worship or praise... you don't even see them as fit to carry out these complex tasks.
Why should an ultimate creator care for you? Oh... he created you out of the mud, you may say?... just adding more baggage, I say. [2]
1) I don't say that the necessary creator, etc. must be a being. I say that being-itself exists, and is the source of being for everything else that exists. I haven't spoken about intelligence or consciousness or intent at all in this context.

If you are wanting to say that it is equivalent to a "necessary creator", then that's where my problems begin.
I don't like a creator being a being.
A creator of the Universe can be many things... most of them not conscious.
Also, just because we can infer a start to our Universe, that does not mean that, if there is something beyond our Universe, it too had some sort of start and that it too requires some creator.
Are you starting to see why I mentioned "argument from ignorance", earlier?
(December 19, 2016 at 7:51 am)Ignorant Wrote: 2) That is a big leap from being-itself to worship and caring for other things. Seems a bit premature given what I've said so far.
Just below your username, it says "catholic"... I assumed you made that leap at some point in your life... so why not go there?...