Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 22, 2025, 6:04 am

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist?
(December 19, 2016 at 8:27 am)Ignorant Wrote:
(December 19, 2016 at 8:08 am)pocaracas Wrote: Now now... You said "necessary being". no backsies! :Tongue [1] 
If you are wanting to say that it is equivalent to a "necessary creator", then that's where my problems begin. [2]

I don't like a creator being a being. [3]
A creator of the Universe can be many things... most of them not conscious.
Also, just because we can infer a start to our Universe, that does not mean that, if there is something beyond our Universe, it too had some sort of start and that it too requires some creator. [4]
Are you starting to see why I mentioned "argument from ignorance", earlier? [5]

Just below your username, it says "catholic"... I assumed you made that leap at some point in your life... so why not go there?... [6]

1) Right... which is the same thing as being-itself.

2) Good, because I definitely have never wanted to say that.

3) I don't like the creator being "a" being. Instead, a creator would be "being-itself".

4) I agree. "Historical" understandings of "cosmological" arguments (tracing causality through time to a 'beginning") are dead ends.

5) Yes I do see why you mentioned that. I don't see why you think all of Thomas's arguments are such arguments. I can see the 2nd way, and maybe even the 1st, but not the 3rd 4th and 5th.

6) Because the question was about the falsifiability of the concept of god. I brought up a concept of god which is in principle falsifiable. If you want to ask, "Well what about the falsifiability of the Trinity?!?", it seems like it doesn't belong in the point of the conversation when we are still discussing the most basic concept of god at all. Why discuss the more complex issue when you haven't even begun to agree about the simpler one?

Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention to the conversation before I jumped in.... what's this "being-itself" that you speak of?

5) Ignorance can be divided in a few categories. I'll go with two, the "known unknowns" and the "unknown unknowns".
We know that we don't know how our Universe came into being, hence inserting a god as the kick-starter is wishful thinking, at best.
Way 3 seems to refer to the ignorance of nothingness. An ignorance which we are mostly unaware of. For one cannot claim that such a state as total philosophical nothingness ever existed. Ignorance of how the universe came into being... again!
Way 4 is just silly. Good is a concept used between humans. That which is good depends on the people involved. Some people think Brexit is good, others think it's bad. What is good, in this context? I admit that, within a single population, the "goodness" of the way people treat each other can be quite homogeneous and make it look like one can devise an ultimate goodness where every person is pleased... but in today's intermingled world that is increasingly difficult... someone will always feel treated badly.
But I leave to you the exercise of defining "good". I like it when believers realize that words have multiple meanings and it's important to know exactly which meaning you're using at each moment. I want to use the same as you. As for me, I think this works on an overall ignorance of how "good" is determined within a population.
Finally, the fifth way (oh, look.. this link has them all) stems from the ignorance of how intelligence can arise from purely deterministic bio-chemical operations. Granted, even science is mostly ignorant of the mechanism by which intelligence arises from the complexity of the human brain's neurons, but that's where it seems to reside, that's where we'll get our answers... and I seriously doubt that the answer will be "this bunch of neurons cannot possibly convey rational thought, it is clearly being bestowed, before birth, from some external, all-permeating intelligence"...
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Atheists, tell me, a Roman Catholic: why should I become an atheist? - by pocaracas - December 19, 2016 at 10:22 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Are Atheists Afraid to Join Atheists? Asmodeus 10 1898 October 26, 2024 at 9:09 am
Last Post: Asmodeus
  British Non-Catholic Historian on Historical Longevity of the Roman Catholic Church. Nishant Xavier 36 3845 August 6, 2023 at 4:48 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  Atheists will worship the Antichrist and become theists during the Tribulation Preacher 53 6325 November 13, 2022 at 3:57 am
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  Athiest parent sending child to Catholic school EchoEllis 36 6963 December 2, 2021 at 10:24 am
Last Post: brewer
Lightbulb Here is why you should believe in God. R00tKiT 112 21156 April 11, 2020 at 5:03 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  What made you become an atheist? Atomic Lava 69 9827 December 12, 2019 at 7:16 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  How should an atheist react to discrimination? Der/die AtheistIn 21 4115 March 26, 2019 at 9:14 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  What made you become an atheist? Handprint 170 59712 October 3, 2018 at 5:06 am
Last Post: Cod
  Our Role(s) as Atheists on an Atheist Forum. ignoramus 28 5383 May 12, 2018 at 9:01 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  I enjoy far right atheists more than lgbt marxist atheists Sopra 4 2754 February 28, 2018 at 9:09 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)