RE: How literally should we take the Qur'an ?
January 24, 2017 at 5:22 pm
(This post was last modified: January 24, 2017 at 5:23 pm by WinterHold.)
(January 24, 2017 at 11:10 am)Khemikal Wrote: That's talking that verse literally?
Yes; to the max!
Paulablo
Quote:This is a different translation of the same verse and I saw this being used as a miracle in Islamic forums before.
No; it's not the same verse.
This is verse 7 in Sura 78.
Quote:Muslims want to believe it so they tag anything to verses. The mountains are pegs stopping the earth shifting (Which they don't) or the gullible Muslim mind makes up something about the mass of the earth or some other bullshit.
Not really; the verse does save me lots of time and make me conclude (literally) that:
1-Earth can shift (Thus it is standing over some kind of space).
2-Anchors or pegs make it stable; or in other modern words mass make it stable; so its mass does play a huge role in making it stable.
Quote: As a whole, 24% of the Earth's land mass is mountainous.[14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain
That's a lot of mass.
Having 24% of additional mass to the land is what makes the gravity of earth what it is right now.
Increase or decreas, and you'll cause a disaster.
https://www.quora.com/What-would-happen-...nificantly
Mister Agenda
Quote:If you're arguing Islam, your literalism should be comparable to the literalism of the person you're arguing with. It does no good to moan about the Koran's ideas of how the sun sets and rises with someone who has already reconciled themselves to accept modern astronomy despite it. You need to get a feel for how literal they are, so you're not wasting your or their time.
The disaster is when the Muslim debater is as literal -or even more- towards science,as their discussion peer.
As for time wasting; I don't believe that these discussions are time wasting because I don't actually want to convert you.
Not by words, or by guns, or by knives, or by anything. You assumed that I'm a missionary who has a goal of converting the people I discuss things with.
Standing up between the masses and saying your belief and discussing it, is not time wasting.
It lets people crack the stinky shells they surround themselves with, it makes people discover new stuff, or change negative ideas. Increases self-esteem; too.
The people who "didn't waste their time" in discussing their ideas and faiths, ended up isolated and actually went extinct.
About science, I'm so very literal. Or else; g++ would throw a syntax error.
Quote:Frankly, if a Muslim cherry-picks and interprets the Koran until they're fine with modernity and LGBTQ people and science; to me there's not much to argue about. I wish there were a lot more of those Muslims. They're still wrong, can't know that the Koran is true, and have no convincing evidence that their deity is real; but I have much bigger fish to fry than bare-bones Muslims.
I wouldn't call it "cherry picking until its fine with modernity, LGBTQ society and science".
Instead; as a bisexual, I suffer daily to hold my desire; but you'll never hear me "cherry pick" or go in gigantic gymnastic jumps to make the story of Lot peace be upon him sound "differently".
For modernity; speaking the language of my age, styling my hair in the styles of my age, eating the food of my age, listening to the songs of my age, do not mean that I'm "cherry picking" to make the Quran suit my life; but actually living my age while inflicting the faith on it.
I don't eat pork. That's a single example.
For science; science has no owner. There is a hell big load of Muslim scientists who believed in the Quran but also added wonders to science. It's not "cherry picking"; it's a simple notice.
Pocaracas
Quote:Wait!
Did you really say this?!
Mountains increase Earth's mass?!!?!!?!!!!
Yes! they're even a part of that mass
Quote:As a whole, 24% of the Earth's land mass is mountainous.[14]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain
Quote:Do you accept that the Earth is a planet, roughly shaped like a sphere, travelling through the vacuum of space?
Yes.
Quote:Where does mass come from to increase Earth's? (Meteors are all I can see)
Barring the occasional rocket and probe that humans send out, how does mass leave the Earth?
Anything; even dust from outer space.
Tazzycorn
Quote:That's all well and good, except for one inconvenient fact. The sum of the earth's mass contained within the crust, of which mountains make up a small part, adds up to 0.5% of the whole. So mountain mass does pretty much zip for maintaining earth's orbit or atmosphere.
I don't think things would be same; even 0.5% is enough to disturb everything. I can't find a scientific study to support my claim though; neither can I find a suitable execution of the law of gravity. But I'm sure that changing cosmic constants can result in disasters.
Quote:Of course that is all assuming that your personal interpretation is what the writers of the qu'ran meant, which it is not, and that the qu'ran is also the received word of god, which it is also not. The qu'ran is simply the most recent interpretation of a bunch of creation mythologies first told in the first cities emerging out of the Fertile Crescent, and is as ignorant of reality as the earlier mythologies.
I take the author seriously; and nothing denied what he said until now. Ancient tales talked about a Zues and an Apollo; the Quran told a very different case.
Simon Moon
Quote:“I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.” Quran 8:12
It was a battle; this was a fighting verse; just like when a captain of a squad in a secular army says "aim for the heads; take no prisoners!!".
Quote:[b]“Let not the unbelievers think they will ever get away. They have not the power so to do. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of Allah and your enemy…” Quran 8:59-60[/b]
All non-believers arrange military parades ans develop new weapons to strike fear in the hearts of their enemies.
Muslims are allowed to do the same.
Quote:[b]“When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.” Quran 9:5[/b]
The war between the prophet and the pagans stopped in certain sacred months; this was the order Muslims got to continue the war. The pagans did the same; and they started that war.
Quote:“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” Quran 9:73
Barbarian pagans who kill women, children and torture men; just for believing in an other faith.
Quote:“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.” Quran 9:123
Because all of them fought Muslims already.
Quote:“Lord…Give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 2:286
Yes; many of them hurt us.
Quote:“Lord…give us victory over the unbelievers.” Quran 3:147
Yes. Many of them torture us.