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What Do You Call a Fiscal Progressive and a Social Conservative?
#24
RE: What Do You Call a Fiscal Progressive and a Social Conservative?
(February 7, 2017 at 1:38 pm)pocaracas Wrote: I hate it when posts gets concatenated and then don't show up on the "My posts" link with anything new...

(February 7, 2017 at 6:56 am)Violet Wrote: What basis does his being born a filthy white male have on his asking questions, and observing inconsistencies?

"filthy"... nice addition... -.-'

Anyway, it pertains to the bias with which he enters the question and his observations.
I know we're always biased somehow, but it's not a bad idea to try... try real hard to remove biases.
But he doesn't seem to try that...

It's not mine. You can thank SJWs for that one Wink They just love to parody themselves; it's a great time for humor if ya ain't cucked~ Big Grin

Still remains: Is it not an irrelevant counter to a nonexistent problem when someone is asking a question to better their understanding and to expand their perception and they are told to drop their own grounding in understanding and perception entirely to again ask a question to better their understanding and to expand their perception?

He's already doing what you're asking him to do by inquiring about additional information to repair his cognitive dissonance. What does his race have to do with his asking these questions?

poc Wrote:Well then, it seems that the OP is taking one of two extreme positions, instead of being part of what I'd consider to be the reasonable middle-ground.
Again, clearly showing his pre-existing bias.

Being ultimately 'right' or 'wrong' doesn't enter into it when the problem is internal inconsistency. That's not a question of bias: it's a question of framing and compartmentalizing.

poc Wrote:Again, two extreme views are portrayed, where a middle road appears as the desirable.

Refugee status isn't given lightly, and I'm pretty sure there's some sort of quota system in place. This quota ensures that the budget doesn't get out of control.
Homeless people, veterans or otherwise, become homeless due to a variety of factors and the government should, of course, deal with it, but not in such a way that would encourage people to become dependent on the government for housing. There's certainly an allocated budget for these people and although I don't know numbers, I'd think that it's larger than that allocated to refugees.
It's obviously not enough to cover everyone, but the government should also try to fix that problem from the other side: employability of people prior to them becoming unemployed; home security - helping people with some sort of subsidy to prevent homelessness while attempting to find a new job; etc etc etc... Tons of mechanisms and things to cover - it's a damn complex issue, specially in a "liberal economy" setting.

I certainly don't disagree with your assessment, but were it a question of soundness and efficacy then a great number of changes would have to affect his cultural background and understanding of justice before he could accept an economic policy that comes with moderation, and the uneven justice of poverty for self-destructive behaviors.

A functioning nation is hard work, and if there were easy answers then it wouldn't be particularly interesting to discuss and we'd all be sipping the mimosa in a utopia. But there aren't easy answers, and mine would differ from yours on government's role in the lot of it... but again, the OP didn't explicitly seek out which form of governance is the best and how it should operate...

It's still a question of culture within a group, and while it's a culture I do not respect or accept to be beneficial: it is certainly within reason to allow a question of apparent cognitive dissonance between two very difficult to rationalize positions that would seem to conflict with one another to point of irreconcilability.

poc Wrote:Again, a deeper cause exists for such pay disparity in the statistics.
Should the law change to force such disparity to become non-existent?
Or should we find some way to boost ugly people's confidence, thus leading them to better positions?
Should that boost start with a law? or within society at large? (the same society that votes for our leaders)

Should it? I have no idea, I'm not one to argue for pay equity laws. My understanding is that there are innumerable conditions within life for which one person's work may be valued more or less than another's, and I don't seek to repackage 'fairness' as equity, as I do not believe equity is fair.

But if you're already at the basis of equity laws as they refer to finances: why should any one group with disparity NOT see equalization of wages and/or hierarchy within business? Does it make sense that women get equity with men, but the ugly don't with the beautiful, even though theirs is a much greater (and, hehe, actually real) disparity? I don't believe it does. OP seems to be of that mindset. Hence his confusion and seeking a reconciliation.

poc Wrote:Again, it's a society problem. Why do tall people get more respect? What have they done to gain such respect? grew tall? wow talk about winning the genetic lottery!

Respect should be earned on a case-by-case basis.
If the majority of people fail at this, then how should we teach them to learn it and pass it on?

Respect is impossible within a socialist system, I can't tell you how to pass on a judgmental trait within a system that doesn't have any room for that such traits, as I assure you I don't know.

I would like to believe that humans are rather libertarian and self-oriented by nature... but that is at odds with many popular philosophies and economic/governance policies.

Quote:I think he has his head in a biased statistical view of the world, where the actual people are mistreated and discriminated out of high pays, when it may not be the case for the majority of cases.
The majority of those disparities are probably due to other factors that don't show up in statistics.

If you're being mistreated and discriminated out of wages, then I would suggest you take it up with the legal system (if you're american, or in one of those terrible european systems), as that is currently illegal in many forms. Or, if you're a lazy person with no backbone to defend your rights whatsoever: you could always join a union. Of course... often it is that higher pays just come from doing better work and/or being more likable by your employer, so it could be a wash.

Gross injustice is not the case for the majority of cases. For those remaining, there is often legal recognition and protection for the rights of those downtrodden. For the few cases out of that for which there is no recourse possible: a worker in america has the right to quit. In the cases where the worker cannot choose to quit and/or find a better job at which the injustice is no longer applicable: that sucks, and the likelihood that they are an illegal alien working illegally is the majority of these cases.

There's some pretty brutal shit that happens to girls/women on their way up through central america and mexico to the united states... it is genuinely horrible, and every effort should be made to disincentivize that horrific journey. Employers can't abuse workers they don't have (beside the point of the rapes on the way up).

(February 8, 2017 at 8:30 am)Whateverist Wrote: I've got no beef with being self-centered or selfish either.  It's good to have a center and to serve yourself well.  I just think when considering or consorting with other selves, each with their own center, we do better to allow for differences.  People vary.  A naive expectation of sameness is unjustified and a reflexive tendency to categorize variance as pathological ... sucks.  That's where the character flaw part creeps in.

I find that a lot of people don't vary very much, and find themselves utterly at home within certain cultures or political groups (or mothers' basements in D&D case).

You would be right regarding the puritanism of a lot of cultures: they very much don't want to let in certain groups. That's a group-think/mob-mentality sort of flaw, in my opinion... and the OP is very much on the road to rejection of that group-think with his discovery that he feels shame to stand alongside his friends for the fact that he can't fathom them.

So, I wouldn't say that the OP has distinguished himself as having any particular character flaw besides incredulity Smile
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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Messages In This Thread
RE: What Do You Call a Fiscal Progressive and a Social Conservative? - by Violet - February 8, 2017 at 8:59 am

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