Why would a perfect being make an imperfect world?

[Asmodee]

Christ, would you relax?  I didn't remember you saying that.

I'm not uptight, I said you didn't read my post to you, how hard could it have been to find. I found it to make sure of exactly what I had said.

"Your first post to me", what, today? In this thread? Ever? I don't remember ever reading that before so I asked for some fucking clarification. Let's make a federal fucking case out of me asking for clarification rather than going back and finding it myself. I'm fucking sorry.

What you are saying is that free will is both vitally important and not very important at all.

No, you are reading that into my statement an atheist strategy to avoid the truth. If you would go back and read my first post to you you would see how important free will is. Free will can't be important and unimportant to a person. It's one or the other.

No, I'm trying to understand your apparently contradictory stance. It appears to be both important and unimportant to God.

And before Jesus existed, free will didn't exist.  Nobody could choose to accept or reject a savior before he existed and nobody was expected to.  So, early on, free will was also not at all important to God.

Jesus has always existed, the Hebrew's have been expecting Him when the exile began. God has always existed and the acceptance of Him is through free will. Free will was so important to God from the beginning that He allowed Adam and Eve to choose to disobey Him. He wasn't going to interfere with perfect love. Adam and Eve chose to destroy that relationship.

Now you're just fucking with me. Jesus has always existed because people were "expecting him" AFTER some point in time? Oh, I get it. This is a sly shift away from "Free will is your ability to accept or reject Christ" to "Free will is your ability to accept or reject God". This is what you people do instead of saying, "You're right. I misspoke. I meant God." You dig yourself a big fucking hole, fill it to the top with hot steaming bullshit and dive right in head first. So Adam and Eve had the choice to follow or reject "Christ" because he always existed, even before he was prophesied? I can smell that from here.

I think you are a bit confused as to the nature of free will.  Free will is the ability to act freely according to my own will.  What you're talking about is the ability to make one single, extremely specific choice.

I'm very clear on what free will mean, if you had read the first post I made to you you would know what I was saying. So try reading it.

GC

I owe you an apology, I confused my posting to Aurora with posting to you, I'm sorry. The post I refer to is #19.

GC
[/quote]

Well thank you. So it wasn't my memory which failed me at all (this time). I don't read every post in a thread. Even if I did, I wouldn't remember anything but vague ideas. I have a terrible memory.

Okay, I read it. Choose Christ or reject him. I'm sorry, but I don't see how that applies to Adam and Eve. I don't see how that applies to the twelve tribes of Israel. At no point were they told to "accept" Christ. To accept Christ is to be Christian. You can't be Christian before the Christ exists. I'm sorry, but you're just making up bullshit here. That would be a HUGE loophole for anyone before Jesus to get into Heaven. You can't go to Hell unless you've heard the word, after all, and Jews hardly went around preaching about the Christ a thousand years before his appearance. That makes Oprah God. You're going to Heaven, you're going to Heaven, you're going to Heaven, EVERYBODY is going to Heaven!

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My objection that God tampers with it was simply a way of pointing out that it wasn't apparently that important.  Pharaoh was not given the opportunity to "choose God".

Where, in the Bible, does it in any way mention "free will"?  Yes, you can choose or reject God, but again, that is a single choice, not an overall "free will" theme.

And quick note, the definition of "free will" the two of you are using doesn't match.  On says it's "choosing Christ", the other "choosing God".  It's almost as if you guys are making this shit up as you go along.  Oh wait...YOU ARE!

So you admit that the Bible teaches that we have free will to "choose or reject God." So then regarding all 10 commandments and the 1000 other rules in the OT, that would just be more "choosing God?" The prophets and psalmist that lament the choices that people have made was more "choosing God?" The proverbs that tell you the best way to live, were more "choosing God?" Paul's teaching on the fruits of the spirit and chapter after chapter of Christian living were just more "choosing god?". So, you simply defined everything in the Bible as "choosing God" and then exempted it from the "overall free will theme". You don't seem to have a firm grasp on the issue. 

Are you really distinguishing between "Christ" and "God" as an argument that we are making things up? Ugh.

Now you're just being a dick.  I would like to have a serious conversation like an adult.  What are you, fucking twelve?  "So you ADMIT that I'm right and you're wrong because you used a word that I used proving that I'm right and you're wrong!"  Grow the fuck up and you'll get a serious response, putz.