(April 23, 2017 at 1:31 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Ok here is a claim:
All religions believe in the need of founding Captains that build the foundations of the ship to steer society on course to justice be they Buddas, Avatars, Prophets, Shamans, demi-gods or whatever they been called, including the word "Leaders" (Imams) in Quran in the sense that they ought to be followed and not simply are followed.
Books obviously in the world don't all agree. They don't. Holy books are not in unison. So this says they have changed. And reason dictates before being able to shift authority from God there has to be misinterpretation of the book. That people misinterpret or blind themselves to some of the holy scriptures, believing in some parts and believing in others.
As time goes on, and the followers of truth try to maintain and argue by reasoning to the true interpretation, the books themselves go through change.
Now while I find through investigating all these religions is that therein is still and it cannot be hidden in any of these religions, the necessity of guidance of God.
We are in constant need of guidance from God. Now if we leave this to be subjective, with no clear evidence, there is little room for discussion and it's all about individuals finding the door through inner self journey.
Now while all that is well and good, but at the same time, humanity we all believe has to govern and act upon goodness and morality. If God reminds us of the best course in the past through Navigators of the just city (in the words of Socrates), then aren't we in need of that now.
Now all societies can claim they are waiting for the awaited navigator and captain to be born or come back, but the problem is, we need to know and prepare for him obviously and these needs a legacy of knowledge to hold on to from his predecessors.
The number of predecessors to be is vital to be manifested by God and there also has to be a safeguard by God to have only one set of predecessors according to this number.
I believe you can in almost all religions find hints that this number was manifested by God.
For example, the Quran talks about the statues built by Solomon. We know these were twelve Lions like the world has never seen. What does this mean?
To me it is clear in the bible there was a lot of work to down play the issue of Twelve to be just linked to twelve tribes of Israel. And in fact twelve tribes of Israel was made by God so that the number of successors to Moses would not be lost totally from those who try to hide it, because, they would have a "different" interpretation.
But when for example God gave Aeron the twelve on his breast plate, I believe that Israelites weren't separated to tribes as God never promotes tribalism in this sense, but rather it was meant to show the succession, the grandchildren and lineage linked back to Aeron and including Aeron, to be of twelve Leaders.
The Quran says "By the name of God is it steering and anchoring...." and "we gave them clear proofs in the affair (regarding people of Moses)" and "And we took the covenant of the children of Israel and rose from them twelve Captains...."
And regarding the religious leadership says "Do they have a share in the authority? For they would not give the people a date seed." and reminds of the family of Abraham to emphasize the authority of the Messenger and those who possess the authority from this nation.... that there is no authority but the great authority linked to God in his chosen pure ones.....
Would God be inconsistent with this number? But reason dictates he would be consistent, as it would be easier to safeguard and emphasize that the number has been emphasized on with respect to leadership and succession to the founding Captains of each Rising Illumination Year.
The other issue is the book cannot be something that cannot be unveiled by discussion among humans to beyond human. It has to be more then something that only inviduals can see individually through holy experience, because the latter would make it highly improbable and decrease the chance of humans agreeing.
The other is that the nature of morality if God is the Truest Morality, the it's connection to him must also be a living entity. The Quran emphasizes the LEADER is a human, not a concept, not a set of rules and dogmas, but real living loving being, which is known as the witness of the people of the era per Quran.
These teachings make sense and when looking into the 2nd witness to Jesus being Elijah, we see there is this emphasis in the bible as well.
And we see some places hints of the number Twelve being super significant at point and it is like a great part of the bible was simply to downgrade the significance.
I would say tribes in a people has no significance, we can always link back to a different set of grandparents, more than twelve, going back generations or going down generation, so it's really arbitrary.
So the real emphasis on twelve and the Priest office seems like the Quran unveils to be about the covenant of how to hold to the ship of Noah and be steered by Captains who steer by the name of God.
This is from the perspective of a few verses. Many arguments will follow!
Right from the beginning you give it away.
"All religions believe in the need" no need to go any further because that is my point to this thread.
Again, just like Catholic Lady, or any Jew or any Hindu or any Buddhist........ NOT THE QUESTION
"Why" is your own personal bias based on the individual's personal subjective opinion.
My questions are in the OP aimed at not just you, but anyone and everyone.
"Why do you feel the need to believe" is my question.
"All religions believe in the need"
YEP, BINGO and that is my point. So again, if that is the case that all religions believe in the need, then what neutral filter do humans have that everyone can use to determine what is subjective opinion vs universal fact?
