RE: Theistic Inclinations
May 10, 2017 at 5:46 pm
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2017 at 5:53 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(May 10, 2017 at 4:39 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(May 10, 2017 at 3:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But Chad, if a person genuinely just doesn't think God is real, how can that be held against them to such a degree that warrants going straight to Hell after they die? Don't you think God gives these people a chance?
First, let me say that I think the scriptures are indeterminate between eternal conscious torment and annihilation. Second, let me say that I personally do not like either option. I would much prefer universalism but that is not what the scriptures teach. There isn't anyone alive that does not have some apprehension of the divine that they could either cultivate or reject.
- "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened" - Romans 1:18-21:
Likewise, the notion of a righteous atheist is a red herring. Scripture is very clear about who deserves salvation: no one.
- "Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you." -Psalm 143:2
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say we have not sinned, we make [God] a liar, and his word is not in us. -1 John 1:8,10
"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way" -Isaiah 53:6
Similarly, scripture is clear that we do not attain salvation by our own efforts:
- "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit" -Titus 3:5).
“No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." -John 6:44
As you know, I do not often resort to proof-texting however since you are a Christian and presumably accept the authority of God's Word, I felt it would be profitable to do so.
Do you think it is possible that this could happen after the person's death though? So that the person who otherwise doesn't realize that God exists has the chance to fully accept or reject Him after seeing that He is indeed real?
(May 10, 2017 at 4:49 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote:(May 10, 2017 at 4:22 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But yeah, I think the point is to be fully aware of the truth, and make the decision to turn away from it anyway.
God aside... I don't think it's possible to genuinely know goodness and choose against it.
So if God were genuinely good I don't think he could be chosen against whilst truly being known.
It would be nice if this were the case. But I do think there are some truly bad people out there.
I think the biggest reason why someone would choose to turn away from God/goodness is pride. They want to have it their own way, and don't want to humble themselves to anyone/anything. They don't want to accept that some of the things they did were bad, and they don't want to feel remorse for them.
Again, this is my personal opinion.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
-walsh