RE: The Problem of Evil combined with the problem of Free Will
May 24, 2017 at 11:28 am
(This post was last modified: May 24, 2017 at 11:46 am by SteveII.)
(May 24, 2017 at 9:48 am)Aegon Wrote:(May 24, 2017 at 8:42 am)SteveII Wrote: See bold. One person's life was significantly harder than the other, but why would you say it is easier for one to accept the gift? The outcome of the story was that Jamal was angry toward God about the hardship. God did not cause his suffering, so the source of his anger was that God did not intervene. But given the free will of everyone involved, how can we say that the greatest amount of good wasn't/isn't/will be achieved? Because of man's choices, Jamal and his family suffered for a finite time, but that is incomparable to eternity. God promises all throughout the Bible that he will be with them that call on his name--especially though adversity. A famous one comes to mind:
Psalm 23
A psalm of David.
1 The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3 he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.
4 Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.
What does any of this even mean? Which part of Jamal's life was God with him for, the part where his wife is raped or the part where his kids starve to death?
That you can lean on God and he will be a comfort even through the worst situations. God was always with Jamal. Notice these verses (or any other) do not promise miraculous intervention in your time of trouble. The promise is always spiritual support and/or peace.
(May 24, 2017 at 9:43 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: In the Bible (1 Corinthians 10:13) there is a promise God won't let you be tempted more than you can bear. There is no promise that you won't be given more than you can handle. The authors could just look around and see that's not true, they would have been laughed out of town in a world where half your children were likely to die before they reached the age of five, women often died in childbirth, and any injury could get infected and kill you; not to mention plagues, war, and natural disasters.
You are very much confusing temptation to sin with the circumstances you find yourself in. Read from the beginning of the chapter.
(May 24, 2017 at 9:48 am)emjay Wrote:(May 24, 2017 at 8:42 am)SteveII Wrote: See bold. One person's life was significantly harder than the other, but why would you say it is easier for one to accept the gift? The outcome of the story was that Jamal was angry toward God about the hardship. God did not cause his suffering, so the source of his anger was that God did not intervene. But given the free will of everyone involved, how can we say that the greatest amount of good wasn't/isn't/will be achieved? Because of man's choices, Jamal and his family suffered for a finite time, but that is incomparable to eternity. God promises all throughout the Bible that he will be with them that call on his name--especially though adversity. A famous one comes to mind:
Psalm 23
A psalm of David.
1 The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3 he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.
4 Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.
So does your position boil down to [variable] shit happens in life but God's only promise is salvation? That that is the free gift that is on offer to all but there is no promise about reducing actual suffering in this life, on account of it being down to the free will of others, and that life is only a blip compared to eternity? [1] What of suffering that is not due to the free will of others, such as natural disasters and being born handicapped in some way... ie suffering that is neither the person's fault or any other person's fault? The point is, the suffering is variable, even taking into account the free will of others as one possible get-out clause, and the more someone suffers, the harder it is to accept and keep the faith. Therefore people receive the same offer but on different terms... some are never tested with real suffering or loss, whereas others experience both through no fault of their own or others. [2]
1. Yes. I would add that God promises to provide support to cope with the suffering.
2. This line of reasoning does not seem to be the case in the real world. The more suffering in the world, the faster Christianity grows. Christianity is growing at unprecedented rates in the third world even today. I am certainly not saying God causes suffering, but God seems to be more real to those in need. To supernaturally intervene ever time someone asked might not be the greatest good considering the "blip compared to eternity".
