I Used To Be A Fan But I Am Now Shocked, Disgusted And Appalled With Sam Harris

[SteelCurtain]

I'd say that the people who vote for Donald Trumps are what's allowing Donald Trumps to happen. Blaming the left is ridiculous. You may as well say that the west is responsible for Islamic terrorism for angering the Islamists.

No, the people who vote for Donald Trump are what makes the election of Donald Trump possible. The people who outnumber those people who voted for Donald Trump by a pretty solid margin, yet protested by voting for candidates who actually were worse representatives of the issues they cared about because the other viable candidate was flawed allowed that smaller number of Trump voters to win in more areas. It will happen again if the left doesn't learn to accept flawed candidates, because in this world of hyperpartisan politics, the two major candidates are going to be made out to be evil, damaged, etc no matter who they are. But the right will still vote for their man. (let's face it--it will be a man) The left will fracture itself and lose more elections because the candidate is an evil warmongerer who once voted for a war or once supported a trade deal or once voted against a bill that would have helped their pet cause, or their preferred candidate got primaried by the eventual nominee and they carry all of the vitriol from primary season into the general election. This is a problem unique to the left. It is infantile to refuse to see how much it affects elections.

Imagine someone coming on his show calling gay people faggots or black people N words and him just sitting there laughing and saying it's hilarious and then go on to continue politely agreeing with the person, completely complicit in all those bigoted expressions. For me to not call out such a response as obviously bigoted would just be intellectually dishonest of me.

If someone came on his show saying that that would be exactly as bad as what Murray said about transgender people. Hence my reaction.

I'd say if anything I undereacted. If I was transgender myself I think I'd take, understandably, even more offence and it would be justifiable too. Ask yourself this "Would it be an overreaction on Hammy's part if Murray had started calling black people N-words and gay people faggots and Sam Harris had sat there laughing and saying it was hilarious and then going on to politely agreeing as if that was all acceptable?". Underreaction, I think. I think a lot of people would get more upset than I am. But not everyone compares bigotry against transgenders to bigotry against other groups... but they should. And in fact there seems to be much more bigotry against transgenders than any other group in the LGBT community. Many people who accept homosexuals and lesbians are still bigoted against bisexuals and say stupid shit like they're "greedy", and an even greater number of people are perfectly accepting towards gays, lesbians and bisexuals but are still bigoted against transgender people.

I absolutely did not overreact to such vile bigotry and such vile condoning of vile bigotry. Opinions like this being brushed off as not a big deal and taking offence against it being brushed off as an overreaction is harmful to the transgender community. It needs to be taken more seriously, not less.

I don't think it does. I think this equivocation between denigrating slurs and crass generalizing is where we differ. I don't think there were any slurs thrown, I just think Murray and maybe Harris are ignorant of (maybe wilfully) the complexities of gender. I think, again, that as a gay man, Murray capitalizes on something I hear a lot among gay friends of mine---crass "shade" thrown at other members of the LGBTQ community. It is as if as soon as a person comes out as trans, questioning their choices and lifestyle is off limits. Caitlyn Jenner is a pretty shit human being. Most trans people I have talked to (small sample, I know) say worse things about her. I think you are overreacting here. But I'll let you to it.

To be quite honest, the thing that needs to be taken more seriously is having conversations with people to educate them about gender if they aren't aware. Calling them bigots and writing them off does nothing to change the situation or raise people's consciousness. Social change isn't immediate. Every other group fights for years or decades to gain social standing, and while I'd love it if there was a shortcut; it doesn't seem like there is one. It takes time and exposure. But if we can learn anything from the countless studies coming out about confirmation bias and the backfire effect, shouting people down is the one thing that can retard that progress.