The Problem of Evil combined with the problem of Free Will

[Valyza1]

Is that really the best analogy?  A fish can't decide to be something other than be a fish and do what fishes do, a process which is exploited almost entirely by the fisherman for purely personal gain.

Can they, can they be something other than nutballs?  If they can, they sure don't employ that ability very often.

In my experience, human beings are multifaceted. You can apply any label you like for the sake of convenience, but at the end of the day, you can't capture their value on a hook.

 You're saying it's the fish's fault for getting caught by the fisherman??

LOL, no Val, I'm saying that it's not my fault that they're fish.  I didn't make them that way.  Yes, I catch crazy fish- but I don't make them crazy fish.  

Well, then I agree with you there. I never suggested ridicule makes them believers in the first place. I only suggested the fish are going to flap their hardest when caught on the hook. Also, that it isn't a service to anyone but the fisherman or those ordering fish. I hate the analogy, and I don't know what eating the fish would be analogous to, but I'm doing my best with it.

Were I more interested in the theist POV than the skeptic POV, I'd actually have entered this process with theists and have something to show you right now.  I can't remember, however, the last time I had an in-depth conversation with a theist.  Not because I find the theist impossible with which to have that kind of conversation, but because I find the skeptic side far more fascinating.  I am not religious, but I'm pretty sure I'm a theist, but more importantly, someone who's fascinated by the questions raised by the dichotomy of theism and atheism.

I already figured that, and it's a pretty common song and dance we get around here, from theists, about how atheists are too mean and shouldn't be so mean because that just makes nutters nuttier.

I don't care if you're an atheist or theist, it isn't my place to determine how you can or can't behave. You can go out and murder a bunch of kids, and it still wouldn't be my place to tell you you're wrong, even though I would try to help preventative measures like the effort to keep you locked up. But I do consider it my place in a discussion forum to have a discussion worth having, and the topic of what's a better way to respond is interesting to me and i think is worth sharing my views on.

Catch any ridicule? I don;t plan on giving your religious ideas deference, and I don;t plan on giving your religious ideas about the deference your religious ideas deserve any deference. If you have ridiculous beliefs...I'm going to do you the service of not lying to your face about what I think of them. If you don't want to catch some ridicule for your beliefs...either don't share them, or get less ridiculous beliefs. It's no one else's responsibility to shield you from the consequences of your own beliefs.........doing so isn't even being polite, it's patronizing.

. I agree and would never expect anyone to shield me from the consequences of sharing my beliefs. That doesn't mean I shouldn't share my opinions on what are better and worse ways to respond. They may not do any good for you, but maybe they will for someone else. Not only that, but I wouldn't even know for sure how they affect you until I actually post them in the first place. I'm perfectly aware of what I might invoke by posting them, and accept the risk, because I find the potential rewards to be worth it.