A Question From Atheists

[nosferatu323]

Are you ever going to get around to showing us any of those "philosophical formulations"?  That would help.  I'm certain that whatever they are they can be mind calming, ofc.

I think calmness of mind is a subjective matter. There is no point arguing about it. I merely suggested reading philosophical formulation of pantheism can calm the mind based on my personal experience. I don't think my personal opinion is interesting for you. But Einstein has said:

I am fascinated by Spinoza's pantheism

 It is by no means an evidence, proof or anything like that. I thought the scientific status of this person might suggest you to consider the possibility of pantheism being more than absolute "nonsense".

He would still be part of and in the universe, and he would still exist in the universe, even if he were just an imagination in his mind...because the term "universe" explicitly denotes -everything-, even the "imaginations in our minds".  That's what the "uni" prefix means.  What you are trying (and failing) to convey here can only be that he would not exist...as he thinks he does....in the universe.  Well, no shit, most of us aren't half as attractive as we think we are, either.  

Imaginations do not exist, they of course exist if you see them as activities of neurons in the brain. But when you say "I" you are not to those neurons activities, are you? In fact even if you are referring to those pulses within your brain, there is no actual referent, because those pulses constantly change there is no "object" within the real world that can be referred to as I.

There are many people who claim they understand this on a subjective level and experience the voidness of their "I". They experience "I" as having no actual referent. It is said that this understanding can be a natural consequence of meditation (Yogic meditation or whatever) you do not need to have any sort of talent or ability to experience it.

You think that pantheism can be proven...by proving some -other- thing?  That's not how that works.  I also think that self is something like "an imagination of mind"...and yet pantheism -still- makes no sense.  So how did that happen?  I did what you said would work...and it didn't.  

I think there is nothing to prove about pantheism. I think if your imaginary "I" is removed, which means there must be some significant shifts in the patterns and behaviors of neurons within your brain, it makes absolute sense. There is no way to prove what I'm saying as we are talking about a subjective experience. Someone must experience it to verify if it's true or not, I don't think philosophical investigation of it can yield any result.


If you are interested you can practice a technique called "Self-Enquiry" I think it can lead you to experience some degrees of "lack of I" within a relatively short time.

Self-enquiry, also spelled self-inquiry, is the constant attention to the inner awareness of "I" or "I am" recommended by Ramana Maharshi as the most efficient and direct way of discovering the unreality of the "I"-thought.

[quote pid='1574417' dateline='1498397249']
It is nonsensical.  I won't be the only person here who thinks that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about...that your self has not been silenced, and that you've never seen the universe "shine". Is this, btw, one of those philosophical formulations?  If something is shiny it's a god?  
[/quote]
I never claimed my self is silenced or any other claims about my personal experiences. I'm sorry if my bad use of language made you think that. I think it's absolutely absurd to make such claims as my inner conception of self is absolutely irrelevant to you or anyone on this forum and there is no way to verify what I say about it. But what I can do is to refer to many well-known individuals who claim this is possible to achieve this experience through different techniques and practices. This can be some evidence that this is possible, if someone is very interested to verify it (s)he can give it a try.

[quote pid='1574417' dateline='1498397249']
It is nonsensical.  I won't be the only person here who thinks that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about...that your self has not been silenced, and that you've never seen the universe "shine". Is this, btw, one of those philosophical formulations?  If something is shiny it's a god?  

[/quote]
You are being right, the way I put it went somewhat "poetic" which was not consistent with my tone. I apologize for that. I'm just simply suggesting (not proving) that pantheism can be "experienced" that's all. You can do some research and read about the testimony of many others who have experienced that. My personal testimony, as a random person on the Internet on that doesn't mean anything.