(June 29, 2017 at 12:19 pm)Lek Wrote:(June 29, 2017 at 4:04 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I've read the surrounding verses, tyvm, and 2 Thess. 2:11-12 isn't out of context, as much as you'd like it to be. Read it again. 'God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie' clearly implies that if God hadn't stepped in, then these people might have changed their minds and repented. In other words, the HS is not always to be trusted.
Further, there's nothing in the verse about God withholding anything. 'Send' is an active verb. God performed an action which deluded people.
Why do your lot spend so much energy telling people that the Bible doesn't mean what it says?
Boru
Yes. As with hardening Pharaoh's heart at the time of Moses, there have been occasions when God has intervened in the thoughts and actions of some who were already purposely unbelievers. His promise is to reveal himself to those who seek him with a true heart.
Ok, a few issues with that response. Firstly, you seem to be agreeing that God deludes people. Secondly, if someone deliberately disbelieves and God sends a delusion confirming that disbelief, isn't God abrogating the much-touted free will? Finally, how do you square the verse quoted above with the one in 1 Timothy where it says that God wants everyone to be saved?
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson