RE: So, the UN finally admits it's Capitalism not welfare that is ending poverty!
July 26, 2011 at 10:55 pm
(This post was last modified: July 26, 2011 at 11:31 pm by theVOID.)
(July 26, 2011 at 2:28 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote:(July 26, 2011 at 2:12 pm)Jaysyn Wrote: Technically yes, but that's not the type of socialism that makes him foam at the mouth.
I don't care. If he is going to be hyper technical on us about Capitalism, I am going to be hyper technical on "socialism".
I'm for neither -isms. I think either -ism left alone is damaging and it takes pieces of both to construct a well functioning society.
As a person with an avid interest in computer science and physics you of all people should understand why I take such effort to be as concise as possible in my use of terms - Having well defined terms is essential in having a coherent and productive discussion.
And I was NOT being hyper technical about Capitalism, I specifically stated I was taking about Capitalism in general terms and that there was no clear distinction between any two flavours, rather they represent more of an overall way a system based on private ownership of the means of production can be structured - It's frankly the only way that we can be clear about what exactly is being addressed so we don't end up talking past each other.
If you don't like the way I define socialism please state the general philosophy in in your own terms and I will address that, then we can see clearly on which specific ideas we really disagree. And, just to clarify, you consider yourself a progressive correct? Would you not agree that the progressive political philosophy is largely a system of democratic capitalism with minimum state ownership save for that deemed to meet some necessary conditions? And do you consider the general progressive philosophy as socialist?
Also, if you're not going to use the term Socialism to describe a political philosophy then can we use a different label for what you are talking about?
(July 26, 2011 at 3:19 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Here in the US it is capitalism that is causing poverty.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blog..._blog.html
Quote:A study by the Pew Research Center released Tuesday shows that the ecoonomic downturn has caused the wealth gaps between whites and minorities to grow wider than they have been in a quarter-century.
A New York Times story published Monday found that employers are now excluding the unemployed from their applicant pool.
Both reports are bad news. But the wealth gap findings are alarming in that they suggest that the economic downturn could have erased 25 years of progress.
Fear not, Adrian and Void....your rich pals keep getting richer.
Hi Glenn Left!
Can you please explain to me how you can take an article about economic downturn and the gap between whites and minorities widening and then spin it into ideological propaganda?
It even gives the fucking reason for the disparity! "many whites derive their wealth from stocks and retirement accounts, while minority families are mostly invested in their homes and have seen the housing market fall out from under them" Yeah, the housing asset bubble burst, credit tightened, teaser interest rates expired, job losses occurred, demand for goods and services fell, the currency and wages of people are being devalued and the CPI is rising! Why? Because your government, in order to create economic growth to stimulate it's way out of the NASDAQ bubble, suppressed interest rates introducing more liquidity into the lending pool resulting in banks having more capital to allocate meaning they lend money to people who they would otherwise not have and therefore need to lower their lending standards! Then your government goes and subsidies home purchases further lowering the lending standards, then they guarantee the loans and limit the liabilities of lenders which even further reduces lending standards! What do you get? A boom in the sub prime mortgage market than flows into the entire mortgage market, rapidly appreciating home prices, a boom in demand for related industries, people who invest their time in training in these industries, a misallocation of capital investment away from the productive sector and into the housing market and service sector! Then it goes tits up, everyone scrambles to recover their investments, teaser interest rates expire, interest payments increase, jobs are lost, all the people who were fooled into investing their capital in the housing market are fucked especially those who got into the game late, the banks who invested in housing lose a fuckload of their wealth and need a big old pile of cash from their buddies in the government who don't actually have any money so they need to borrow it but the lack of confident lenders means your reserve bank has to pull money out of their asses to buy treasuries in turn leading to a depreciating dollar causing a fall in real wages for those people who still have jobs and making it even harder to live on an unemployment benefit as the CPI skyrockets!
And who's to blame for all of this? Nazi's right Glenn? It's those free market Nazis! Lets just ignore the fact that it was the proponents of the free market and the Austrian school of economics who saw the fucking thing coming, who were laughed at by all the liberal and conservative economists on TV when they told people to get the fuck OUT of housing, who were giving speeches to the Mortgage Bankers Association warning them of the mess they were about to cause, the people who were themselves not profiting from the housing market and the exact people who would NEVER have enacted the policies that caused this fucking mess to begin with!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw
And no shit people want to hire those in jobs, especially given that basically the entire industry in response to the bursting asset bubble has seen a lull in demand for goods and services and have made redundant what are generally the least reliable and productive workers! I'm going to be looking for a PHP programmer soon to do some work on a client's site that is beyond my technical abilities making contracting a more cost-effective option, of course I'm going to hire someone/firm that is currently working in the industry over someone who was recently laid off by the business while other people kept their employment, it tells me that the people who were laid off are more likely to be the least efficient/capable/reliable and seeing as I don't have anywhere near the resources to to really thoroughly look into their work history and references I'm going to go with statistics!
And 25 years of progress? Between whites and minorities sure, but in terms of the rich-poor gap no, that has been widening consistently since your nation went full scale Keynesian in the 70's. Contrary to that is the economic liberalisation that occurred in NZ, we have seen the exact opposite effect which is in stark contrast to your conclusion!
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