(July 6, 2017 at 7:17 pm)Jehanne Wrote: The doctrine of "eternal security" is the question at hand here. Like the Rapture, this idea is completely new on the Christian radar screen, having descended out of John Calvin's idea of "double predestination". Whereas Calvin taught that some (infants included) were predestined for Heaven ("the Elect") he also taught that some (infants included) where predestined for Hell ("the reprobate"). Eternal security retains some of Calvin's ideas, in that the doctrine states, "Once saved, always saved", that upon praying the "Jesus, please forgive me..." prayer a believer is, hence-after, eternally secure and can never forfeit his/her salvation. Many, of course, will claim that apostates (such as me) were never truly saved to begin with...
Contrast this with Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity and the Protestant Armenian school of thought that says that a person can sin to the point that he/she forfeits eternal life.
This thread is principally for believers only, but as one of the resident apostate atheists here, I shall be defending the traditional position that one, can, indeed, forfeit eternal life, even though I do not believe in any such notion of the survival of one's consciousness after the death of one's brain.
IF you want to know what the bible says... Salvation is always pointed to as a future event till the time of judgement. through out everything Jesus taught and even throughout the epistles "you will be saved, those who have faith shall be saved, Jesus will save those who... It's not till we get to the book of revelation and out final judgement that salvation happened. Meaning we are saved from judgement/God's wrath. So in essence there is nothing in this life to be saved from. Christians (i've always said this) are no different than anyone else while we are alve. Matter of fact we do not have the right to identify as saved not saved exct, as only Jesus can make that determination. Which will be made upon judgement. In the first century we seem to know this but late (self righteousness) had us step into the role of salvation elevating us above our sinful brothers unrightfully. Why? because As Jesus points out in MAt 5 only He gets to determine who is and is not Christian. Christ is not a respector of the titles we give ourselves.
That said I have always said there will be far more Muslim, gays, deists, and far fewer 'christians' in heaven than what most people think. Because again Christ decideds who is saved and who is not. not blind tradition and ceremony.
