Quantum consciousness...

[bennyboy]

No, we can't.  And, in fact, I'd say that consciousness is so essential to existence that our inability to objectively observe it doesn't bode well for objective observation as the best way to learn about the mind.  I really think we have to define at least some of what "science" means to include methodical self-observation a la the roots of psychology.

b-mine

I'm not sure why you think this is so.  Do you also think that we cannot objectively observe electrical current with a voltimeter?  That we cannot objectively observe temperature with a thermometer?  Time with a stopwatch?

You are exactly sure why I think so, since we've debated it at least a dozen times.  The issue is to what degree one will accept physical correlates of mind AS mind, and whether this relationship is true by definition, or something which bears the BOP.

If I'm dreaming about a magic unicorn, and you are watching my brain, you will probably know that I am dreaming, and you may eventually be able to know that I'm dreaming about a magic unicorn.  You will not be able to ride it with me.  That's because you aren't actually conscious of what I'm conscious of.  At least right now, we will get MUCH better results by teaching me to lucid dream, by getting me in the habit of writing in a little dream diary as soon as I wake up, and so on.

Now, you can definitely do physical science.  You can poke brain parts with an electrode and ask me when I wake up what I experienced.  You can crash symbols at the exact moment I reach deep sleep and see if I was thinking anything at all.

However, a science of consciousness which attempts to completely bypass the subjectivity of it is just cheating.  You don't get to say "Well, the robot can see everything in the room, so it's conscious!" and then pretend you're not just conflating a new meaning with the study of subjectivity.  Or, even worse, you don't get to dodge the BOP: "Until you can prove otherwise, these 20 billion androids meet the US Scientific Standard™ for consciousness, so we must legislate to protect their rights."