Quantum consciousness...

[bennyboy]

We also "know what it is and how to look for it" when it comes to consciousness.  We have even simpler tests for determing the presence of consciousness than we do for determining the presence of an electrical current.  How do you feel today, Benny?  

If you think talking is sufficient to demonstrate the existence of the subjective experience of qualia, then I have a Teddy Ruxpin doll who needs some SERIOUS reparations.

"Hur dur you're just like a religionist" cmon.  What I've told you is that we do, in fact, have tools to observe consciousness.  Tools -at least- as competent as any used to measure electrical current, temperature, and time.  Frankly, when it comes to consciousness we have less need of tools than we do with electrical current, temperature, or time.  

Observing conscious things is not observing consciousness, anymore than looking at a light bulb is observing electricity.

Noboday can really dispute...what..the actual fuck?  Not only do our bodies both represent and experience temperature in subjective ways - they do so only by inference and observation of physical correlates...and even in doing so have difficulty determining between the very hot or the very cold - nor can they give you the actual temperature with any reliability - and that;s assuming that you don;t have a fever or a chill.

So now you appeal to subjectivity? I thought we were talking about scientific things-- you know, things that can be observed and measured.


What, exactly, is the scientific value of any of this? What's the scientific distinction between a p-zombie and me? What if there's a new physical system that does really strange things in reaction to the environment-- how will I determine whether it can experience what things are LIKE?