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Quantum consciousness...
#58
RE: Quantum consciousness...
(August 22, 2017 at 12:39 pm)Khemikal Wrote: "If it;s not binary it must be quantum"

Um, no?  Classic non-sequitur.  In any case, if you're asking that question, and you want a binary answer...one thing you won't be able to escape is that the only places we have any indication of consciousness from, whatsoever, are far above the quantum level.  We don;t see any indication of it in the microscopic, at the level of individal atoms..or of cells made of many atoms, or in simple multi-cellular life, or in complex organ and organelle based life -sans- a cns.  Or, even, uniformly, in complex multicellular organ based life -with- a cns.  It's not just a little bit above the quantum level that we have indications of consciousness, it;s far....far....faaaaaaaaaaar "above" it.

It's not, by any reckoning, that the various interactions and properties at each level "below" have no effect or aren;t in some way operative or fundamental to the end result - simply that the subject "x" -for whatever reason, does not manifest itself as a phenomena until -at least- a particular point in this hierarchy.  Thus, to say that consciousness is ":quantum" or "atomic" or "a function of cells" or "of multicellular life", or of "systemic complexity", or even "of a central nervous system" are all true, but only trivially so.

This is why productive theories of consciousness explicitly reference specified complexities at a particular point in the hierachy and present in an individual representative.


If consciousness is an emergent property, then there is a minimal physical system or process at which it emerges.  There is necessarily some level of organization at which there is consciousness, when at any other more primitive level, there could not be said to be consciousness.

If it is not an emergent property, then it is intrinsic to the Universe, or to something in it, not by any level of organization but right at the root.  That would be quantum mechanics, at least so far as we know now.

(August 22, 2017 at 1:33 pm)Mathilda Wrote:
(August 22, 2017 at 12:34 pm)bennyboy Wrote: If it's not binary, then it must extend down into the quantum world.

No. It could extend down to a collection of interacting cells but no further.

What evidence is there to assume that the brain uses quantum effects?

I didn't say the brain "uses quantum effects," I think, although I'm willing to look at that issue-- certainly the OP video expressly discusses that, but I'm not sure I'd view it in that way.  So at least right now, I wouldn't pretend to be able to produce evidence of that.

Anyway, if consciousness extends down to a minimal system of organization-- say, an individual neuron which can input information from the environment and output a new pattern of information which is mapped to a simple tail's muscle fiber, then it's binary.  Either you DO have that level of organization in place, and have consciousness, or you DO NOT have that level of organization in place, and do not have consciousness.
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Messages In This Thread
Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 13, 2017 at 6:35 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Alex K - August 13, 2017 at 9:11 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by chimp3 - August 13, 2017 at 9:41 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 13, 2017 at 5:34 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Alex K - August 13, 2017 at 5:46 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Brian37 - August 13, 2017 at 5:55 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 13, 2017 at 8:29 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Brian37 - August 14, 2017 at 7:05 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 13, 2017 at 11:00 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Neo-Scholastic - August 16, 2017 at 7:56 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 14, 2017 at 6:50 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 14, 2017 at 7:50 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 15, 2017 at 1:14 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 15, 2017 at 5:28 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 15, 2017 at 8:56 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 15, 2017 at 9:31 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 15, 2017 at 10:45 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 14, 2017 at 7:12 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 14, 2017 at 9:06 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 14, 2017 at 5:13 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 14, 2017 at 5:47 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 14, 2017 at 7:33 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 15, 2017 at 10:51 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 15, 2017 at 4:58 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 15, 2017 at 6:05 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 15, 2017 at 8:08 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 16, 2017 at 12:22 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 16, 2017 at 12:47 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 16, 2017 at 1:11 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 16, 2017 at 6:37 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 16, 2017 at 6:54 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 16, 2017 at 11:04 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 16, 2017 at 5:44 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Whateverist - August 16, 2017 at 2:23 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 16, 2017 at 2:36 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Whateverist - August 16, 2017 at 2:46 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 17, 2017 at 4:07 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 20, 2017 at 10:46 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Whateverist - August 23, 2017 at 4:50 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 16, 2017 at 2:54 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 16, 2017 at 5:30 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 16, 2017 at 5:39 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 16, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 16, 2017 at 10:50 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 17, 2017 at 4:23 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 17, 2017 at 7:23 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 21, 2017 at 4:23 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 21, 2017 at 4:35 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 21, 2017 at 4:54 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 21, 2017 at 7:43 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2017 at 9:12 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 21, 2017 at 7:53 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 22, 2017 at 1:35 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 22, 2017 at 2:43 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 22, 2017 at 5:04 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 22, 2017 at 12:34 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 22, 2017 at 1:33 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 22, 2017 at 12:39 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 22, 2017 at 7:13 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 22, 2017 at 8:04 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 23, 2017 at 11:13 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Whateverist - August 23, 2017 at 10:17 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2017 at 1:01 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 24, 2017 at 3:19 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Alex K - August 24, 2017 at 6:16 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 24, 2017 at 6:34 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2017 at 11:20 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Alex K - August 25, 2017 at 6:40 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 25, 2017 at 7:07 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Alex K - August 25, 2017 at 8:12 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 25, 2017 at 9:35 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2017 at 10:11 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 25, 2017 at 10:28 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2017 at 10:34 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 25, 2017 at 10:51 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2017 at 10:59 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 25, 2017 at 11:43 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 26, 2017 at 3:00 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 26, 2017 at 6:15 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 27, 2017 at 7:41 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 27, 2017 at 8:59 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 27, 2017 at 9:08 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 28, 2017 at 5:23 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 28, 2017 at 12:05 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 28, 2017 at 1:30 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 28, 2017 at 11:19 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Angrboda - August 28, 2017 at 1:51 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2017 at 12:00 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 26, 2017 at 4:39 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 26, 2017 at 7:14 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 26, 2017 at 7:21 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 26, 2017 at 7:35 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Whateverist - August 26, 2017 at 8:29 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2017 at 9:13 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by I_am_not_mafia - August 27, 2017 at 10:01 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2017 at 10:46 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Whateverist - August 26, 2017 at 2:46 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2017 at 2:58 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Whateverist - August 26, 2017 at 3:24 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2017 at 3:40 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2017 at 10:53 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2017 at 10:59 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by bennyboy - August 27, 2017 at 11:12 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2017 at 11:13 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Whateverist - August 28, 2017 at 12:31 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 28, 2017 at 6:07 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 28, 2017 at 9:47 am
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by Whateverist - August 28, 2017 at 3:12 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by The Grand Nudger - August 28, 2017 at 3:18 pm
RE: Quantum consciousness... - by ignoramus - August 30, 2017 at 5:32 am

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