Quantum consciousness...

[bennyboy]

I would define consciousness in terms of its functionality.

The function of consciousness is to allow matter to subjectively experience what itself and its surroundings are like. If you want it not to mean that, then you should choose a word that doesn't mean that. Redefining an idea out of existence isn't a good way to deal with whatever it was the word used to talk about.

I can almost feel Khemikal reaching for this keyboard right now but it does aid agents in exploiting their environment. And as much as everyone here is quibbling about how I am phrasing things (advantage, functionality, higher etc) because you assume that I don't understand how evolution works

My source of contention has nothing to do with your understanding of how evolution works. It's that we are switching between an objective-based vocabulary and a subjective-based one. Evolution isn't an agent. It doesn't do things. It has no goals. At its most essential "evolution" is simply a term for what happens when you have a balance between material entropy and order such that some patterns persist over time and some do not.

Biological evolution as we talk about it is just a snapshot of that more general interaction: we've arrived at a particular kind of pattern which persists over time in particular ways. All the words you are using are part of the narrative of subjective agency, not of material interactions.

(I do, better than both you and Khemikal), absolutely no one has yet answered the following:
What evidence or reason is there to assume that consciousness requires quantum effects in order to occur?

By what evidence would you judge that something is / isn't conscious? If we're really going to study it, how would you identify that you are in fact observing consciousness at all?

I know when something's red. I look at it, I say red, you say red, we agree it's red. The standard for redness (tint aside) is crystal clear: collect light and determine if it's of that frequency we label "red." Not so for consciousness.

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I don't see any reason to believe that our consciousness or even cognizance rely, meaningfully, on quantum effects, myself.

Why? Is it your position that once a new property has supervened, it is independent in some way of the properties or systems on which it supervened?

Consciousness needs brain needs neurons needs molecules needs atoms needs QM effects, no? At what stage of this organization do you think "meaningful reliance" emerges, and why?

I've argued this in the past, that identical properties can emerge on different systems, meaning that they are not after all functionally reliant on those underlying systems. Are you making this argument now?

(As an example, I'd say that wings could evolve in organic animals, in silicon based life forms, or in self-replicating robots. I'd say that while you need SOME organization to sustain information, the "wing" idea has an identity of its own, separate from any of the various mechanisms that could potentially sustain it)