RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
September 29, 2017 at 3:12 pm
(This post was last modified: September 29, 2017 at 3:16 pm by Harry Nevis.)
(September 29, 2017 at 1:09 pm)SteveII Wrote:(September 29, 2017 at 12:06 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: If they do not sin because of "the way they are" then you are no longer arguing that they have free will but rather that their behavior is in some sense determined. You've undermined your argument for one. For two, your answer is so vague that it basically reduces to "they would not sin for some unspecified reason." That's hardly adequate as an explanation for why they would not sin. It's little more than a bare assertion of your conclusion. Christians have said that we are "slaves to sin." Even those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior continue to sin. That is "the way they are." You need to do more than just handwave at some unspecified reason to explain why they will sin no more once in heaven.I was not getting into why they did not sin--only countering an argument that God could create people in a "dimension" where they would not have chosen sin.
There are several possibilities. The doctrine of Sanctification is where a Christian is perfected in love, meaning that the heart is undivided in its love for God or that it loves nothing that conflicts with its love for God. It is reasonable to assume that being in the actual presence of God (or having access to the actual presence of God) has the effect of preventing a divided heart. In addition, whatever additional knowledge (promised in scattered versed throughout the NT) becomes known to us in heaven would likely have the effect of illuminating the consequence of sin and therefore eliminating the desire for it. Anyway, there are no logical problems with free will existing in heaven.
"is reasonable to assume"..."would likely"...weasel words. They only apply if you buy into the claptrap. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin again?
(September 29, 2017 at 2:40 pm)SteveII Wrote: No one has ever had perfect knowledge--so you can't really say that.
I'm sure he could have. But you have just changed the starting ingredients for humans and it is not very clear how that would work. People being born with perfect knowledge? Never having to choose to love God. Vast amounts of human development/experiences would not be possible (bravery, sacrifice, risk, fear, childhood, innocence, attaining knowledge, struggle, love, love lost, etc.). What you are talking about is a variation on the angel theme.
You are so full of shit.
(September 29, 2017 at 2:50 pm)SteveII Wrote:(September 29, 2017 at 2:45 pm)Khemikal Wrote: What on earth are you talking about? I've never had to choose to love god or not love god...and yet I somehow managed to develop and experience everything you just listed. There's no obvious relationship between that list and god love, or perfect knowledge, and you don't seem keen to provide one, either.
If perfect knowledge prevents sin and you ask why not create everyone with perfect knowledge, how would that work? You answer the question. What does being born with perfect knowledge entail?
Who said anything about perfect knowledge?
You can smell the desperation...
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
