Reasoning showing homosexuality is evil.

[emjay]

I think it depends a lot on what we mean by the word 'disorder'; I just basically mean a statistical deviation from the 'norm'... as it in something that is relatively rare among a population. But ultimately, in the case of homosexuality, IMO it makes very little difference to evolutionary fitness for purpose as it were; as a bisexual I'm perfectly capable of procreating if I so chose, but even if I was 100% gay, how many children does the average family have... one... two? And how many times does the average person have sex in their life? Considerably more than one or two, so the rest is just extra-curricular whatever your sexuality, in those terms. If I was 100% gay I'd still know exactly what what was required to have children, and by one means or another, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to get it up twice in my whole life for a woman, in order to have children. So this argument by some that it is unnatural falls flat on its face in light of the amount of time people actually do spend having reproductive sex as opposed to sex for love or pleasure.

The unnatural thing is not an argument at all - it's a symptom of (mostly cultural-driven) revulsion. It's a gut reaction. Of course homosexual sex isn't natural for a heterosexual person but it's perfectly natural for a homosexual one.

My point about the disorder thing is I don't think it's something one should get their feathers ruffled up about too much because it's a clinical term and it really doesn't denigrate a person. Admittedly, we still tend to stigmatize mental disorders more than physical ones. My own hypersensitivity to certain sounds is definitely a mental disorder of the type common to Asperger sufferers. But so what?

I think a person arguing from a clinical standpoint can definitely make a case for homosexuality being a disorder but it just doesn't matter. It's not worth arguing about because there are a great many people who have conditions for which a good argument can be made are clinical disorders. Obesity is a disorder. Becoming depressed during winter at higher latitudes is a disorder. Even being a neat freak can be a disorder. Disorders are no justification for reviling somebody to the point where you want to deny them their rights or even do violence to them.

Is homosexuality a disorder? I believe it is but so what? I have my own disorders and most homophobes probably have theirs as well.

I didn't address your point very well did I? And I probably won't again but I'll give it a go: I totally agree... it's not something to get your knickers in a twist over, even if it is a disorder. I happen to respect psychology very much, as well as being a very introspective/analytical person, so I have no desire whatsoever to hand-wave it off as purely genetic and never give it another thought... that would never satisfy me; I like to know how things work and why they work as they do... and since brain plasticity and associative learning is the brain's bread and butter, I see absolutely no reason to give sexuality a special pass/exemption from how the brain does everything else that it does.

The only reason I can see for people clinging to a genetic explanation ie 'born this way' is to combat the religious right, who argue that anything other than 'born this way' is therefore choice/changeable. But I have no intention of giving them that much power to dictate how I explain how I am how I am. But just because I see it as having a psychological/developmental cause rather than a genetic cause doesn't make it any less effectively 'born this way'... you cannot help how you develop... and even if it were changeable with psychology why should you? To please them? Er no... they can fuck right off with that. What I'm saying is even if there is any choice/changeability about it, that makes not one whiff of difference because they do not get to dictate to me how I live my life.

And even if was theoretically possible to change sexuality through psychology, and my mind is open to that possibility, it would take years of therapy... and not by quacks either but by real psychologists who understood how the brain works... it would not be a simple choice like flipping a light switch. I would invite theists in that situation... who proposed that.... to go through such therapy themselves, and then go back, because as it stands they are condemning a 'choice' they've never had to make and likewise they can't exactly take the credit for not having made that 'choice'; 'oh Lord, we're so wonderful, we never chose to be gay' doesn't fly in light of this; never doing something because you never had the inclination in the first place is not a choice or moral point in anyone's favour.

In case I didn't cover your point again, I do get what you're saying, and agree