RE: Reasoning showing homosexuality is evil.
October 23, 2017 at 12:01 am
(This post was last modified: October 23, 2017 at 12:03 am by emjay.)
(October 22, 2017 at 5:01 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:(October 22, 2017 at 5:18 am)emjay Wrote: Well, in my view it's only apparently innate, or as good as innate, from a first person perspective. Ie you hit puberty and start having all these feelings and desires you never had before; in either case they come out of nowhere experientially/subjectively, but in your view (if I understand correctly) their source is genetic, but in my view, they are the result of prior environmental learning that has been going on since birth... maybe some genetics as well but as I said I lean more towards nurture/environmental learning. Either way, by the time they appear consciously they're pretty much fixed, with further learning/experience only steering their further development. So either way there's no difference between the net result; something that feels innate.
"Sex/intercourse" is innate in my perspective. But choosing the mate that would get the organ ready for operation (in the case of men: penetration); is up to what the brain is used to; in terms of Dopamine producing triggers defined through the neuron networks formed by the experiences of the person.
That is arguably, and IMO, probably because you and I are both bisexual; that is, we arguably have a distorted view of the level of conscious choice involved in all this because we both already have established neural pathways in both directions (ie "what the brain is used to"), gay and straight. For us, either of those pathways could be further positively reinforced or likewise deprived of reinforcement; as it stands, I identify far more as gay than I do as straight... maybe an 80/20 split; but that 20% straight is still perfectly well established and potent and if I was to focus my thoughts and attention on my straight side, at the expense of my gay side, that split could easily swing in the opposite direction. But I am much more emotionally attracted to men than I am to women... with women it's more carnal... I get more out emotionally of gay relationships than I do straight relationships, and thus prefer them. The point is though, though as a bisexual it is perfectly possible for me to do this... because I already know from experience that I can do this and go through more gay 'phases' or straight phases depending on where I put my attention... there is absolutely no reason for me to do so and certainly not to please religious bigots and barbarians, and God(s) I don't believe in.
And for someone who is not bisexual... someone who is 100% gay or straight... they do not have this same choice. The most they can do is abstain (ie deny positive reinforcement) but they do not have anything to replace it with because they do not have an established 'seed' as it were of the opposite orientation. In other words, the choice available to us as bisexuals is largely superficial; working with what already exists and is well established, but for a 100% gay/straight person, there is only one seed that is established.
Quote:...
I won't say conscious appearance of the choice means its fixed. I prefer to think that we can affect any part of our consciousness anytime we want.
That's the point, it's conscious; as described above, we (as in you and I, as bisexuals) have two conscious 'seeds' that we can consciously influence with choice by feeding one and denying the other if we so choose. That's what I mean by fixed... it is a desire that has broken through into conscious awareness and therefore can be acted upon, or not as the case may be. Fixed is probably the wrong word, solid might be better... tangible. But those initial seeds themselves, are what I consider to be innate or as good as; they are what 'pops up out of nowhere' during puberty... that is, prior to that they were being subconsiously learned (or genetically influenced, if that is a person's belief) since birth but were not conscious enough to be influenced with conscious choice. They come into conscious awareness at puberty, IMO, but what comes into conscious awareness, is innate or as good as innate because it was subconsciously learned prior to that. For us, two seeds popped up, but for purely gay or straight people, perhaps only one. Puberty is a time of exploration, experimentation, and discovery for a child, so even if more than one seed pops up but the child later becomes totally gay or straight, it is not the right of religion, or anyone else for that matter, to attempt to interfere with that process; to attempt to interfere with which seed(s) a child chooses to reinforce... that's entirely up to them and what feels right for them... and no-one else can or should, make that decision for them. In my own case, my parents didn't have the chance thankfully, because I didn't come out until I was fifteen and by then it was well and truly established... but after I did come out, then all the religious crap came in and the birthday presents of books like "Homosexuality: The Straight Agenda" and statements like 'it's just a phase'.
(October 22, 2017 at 5:49 pm)Joods Wrote:(October 22, 2017 at 5:21 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
We are both entitled to our opinions here. And you and I and every other member are free to challenge and debate those opinions. We should try to be adult-like and civil when doing so, but emotions get in the way and that doesn't always happen.
Sorry, I guess I should put the extra i back in Shiite then
