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For Christians (or anyone else) who deny Darwinian evolution.
RE: For Christians (or anyone else) who deny Darwinian evolution.
(November 3, 2017 at 4:16 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(November 2, 2017 at 4:48 pm)SteveII Wrote: Link didn't work.

You are just restating the theory--not explaining any of it. If the mechanism of evolution is a known scientific fact, my questions should have fairly straightforward answers: How do seemingly irreducibly complex systems evolve when the development of the component parts require each other to confer a survival benefit? Don't use generalities. They eye is a good example.


There are a number of reasons why your argument here fails:
A: Something that appears irreducibly complex may not in fact be so.
B: Evolution can discard parts as well as add.
C: Parts can change their usage.



The eye has probably one of the best known evolutionary paths and I know you have been told about this on a number of occasions in the past.

But here we go.

Firstly a brief explanation of the evolution of senses. All senses rely on a similar process, electrical impulses. At the simplest level you can see paramecium use the deformation of its surface to sense hitting something by changing the level of negative and positive electrons internally and this reverses the pulses of its flagella by using waves of electricity, nothing that compares to a nervous system but you have the basis of sensing and reacting. From this you can evolve a brain.

The simplest known proto eye is an eyespot or light  sensing organelle found on algae and other unicelled creatures that senses when its dark or light and can use similar methods to the paramecium to move towards light/away from dark.

From there you can evolve the eye and associated neural functions.

I missed the part where you explain how the eye and the associated neural function developed through successive small changes where both are needed to provide a survival benefit. Further, just recognizing light is not a survival benefit. The organism has to be able to do something about it. So, what function evolved first when all three require the others for any survival benefit? 

Quote:From a light sensing spot if you add a bit of a dip you can sense the direction the light is and that gives more information for the evolving creature to use with its evolving neural system

The deeper the dip, the better the information, until you get a sphere.

Then you can have a number of light sensing spots, people grow extra heads from time to time so adding extra things is a common mutation, adding spots gives the ability to see  shapes.

There are several things wrong with that sentence, but let's stick to the one point. You would need a massive increase in complexity in the processing center to go from the binary light/no light to recognizing shapes and doing something about it that would be a survival benefit. What survival benefit preserved the increasingly complex (but useless) eye until the organism developed the vastly improved processing center? 

Quote:I'm sure you can take it from there. I have shown you how to evolve a working eye, sensing apparatus and neural network there.

You can find similar processes for everything if you care to look.

By the way, what is your suggested alternative? I want an answer at least as detailed as the one I gave above.

I am not the one claiming something!! People left and right here claim evolution is a scientific fact. It is NOT. It is a philosophical claim. This is not a difficult concept. 

I'm not even saying that evolution is a bad theory. It's absolutely the best naturalistic theory we have. To deny there are large gaps of knowledge in how it works and how it played out is just stupid. I for one am waiting until we either fill in the gaps with facts (or better theories) or fail to. My beliefs don't hang on it either way.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: For Christians (or anyone else) who deny Darwinian evolution. - by SteveII - November 3, 2017 at 8:49 am

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