Liberals versus Leftists

[Whateverist]

Liberal: skin color is irrelevant
Left: skin color is significant

Me: skin color should be irrelevant, but in fact has great significance for the people who aren't white. Black Lives Matters is, unfortunately, a much needed movement.

Liberal: Capitalism is good with proper regulation.
Left: Capitalism is essentially exploitative.

Me: Capitalism is exploitive. But so long as it is the system in play it very much needs to be properly regulated and excluded or greatly diminished in fields such as health care.

Liberal: Love of country is a virtue.
Left: Nationalism is a vice.

Me: Nationalism is a throwback to tribalism, but much more problematic. Love of country makes no sense to me.

Liberal: America is a beacon of freedom and land of opportunity.
Left: America is fundamentally oppressive.

America has been a land of opportunity, giving immigrants the freedom to pursue a profit they don't enjoy everywhere in the world. America has exploited those same immigrants to do menial work at substandard wages often while reviling, resenting and often hating them.

I don't see how "America is fundamentally oppressive" relates to these issues. America has been an oppressive influence in the world, pursuing its interests to the detriment of the interests of other countries and often with little or no regard for their inalienable rights of their citizens (assuming the inalienableness accrues to all persons on account of their essential humanity and not just as a result of membership in the tribal club).

Liberal: The solution to offensive speech is more speech.
Left: Offensive beliefs should be suppressed.

Me: Pro the Liberal, anti the Left as elaborated in this instance.

Liberal: The Western tradition has produced the most free, wealthiest, technologically advanced and culturally rich civilization.
Left: All cultures and civilizations are morally, aesthetically, and intellectually equal.

Me: Assuming 'The Western tradition' here refers to imperialism/capitalism I would say it has created great freedom on a pay to play basis. But technology has flourished. To sneak culturally in there makes no sense: yes, Hollywood has done for cinema what the recording industry has done for music - enrich those associated with them, usually in proportion to the wealth invested. But to suggest that the culture is therefore superior to that which hasn't been made to produce big bucks is just crass.

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Any meaningful definition of those three terms won't change the fact that our moral, aesthetic, and intellectual value..whatever it is and by whatever metrics one chooses to define them...are the product of immigrants (both in person and in ideas) from everywhere coalescing into a recognizable whole.

How about the following edit for my bolded:

.. are the product of a succession of immigrants (both in person and in ideas) from everywhere coalescing -after a period of severe hazing- into a recognizable whole - in which black lives matter less to cops and brown and muslim looking people are far more likely to be detained and/or questioned about their right to be in this country.

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Being white and loving my country doesn't make me a white nationalist.  White nationalism is offensive, being me...well, probably still offensive but not for the same reasons. 

It's possible to be patriot without also being a dick.  Plenty of people confuse the one for the other, I'm sure.

I would say that patriotism is also bad. That's how I feel. I don't think that one country should be considered better, look at the trouble this sort of feeling causes.

I would much rather see my country be a good world citizen than see it use its influence to further just its own narrow interests, Trump's 'America First' non-sense.