RE: Theism is literally childish
November 13, 2017 at 9:11 am
(This post was last modified: November 13, 2017 at 9:16 am by John V.)
(November 12, 2017 at 11:58 pm)emjay Wrote: Maybe it is but it is nonetheless how I feel. I do not have a burning desire to fill every gap, and do not lose any sleep over not knowing the answer to certain questions, only the questions that are important to me.
The issue is that, regarding a theist with a similar position, you say they have all the hallmarks of delusion.
Quote:As to Occam's Razor... yeah, but then it's just turtles all the way down isn't it? If there was always something rather than nothing, which I believe is possible, then there is no need to 'multiply entities needlessly' by adding a God,
On what evidence do you believe that an eternally existing universe is possible?
Quote:Once in a million, billion, or gazillion still shows possibility; statistically rare but materialistically possible will always trump magic for me.
You have no evidence that it's materially possible. Just the opposite.
Quote:Anyway you clearly know more about this than I do, so I at least read a bit of the wiki on abiogenesis; it's more than I knew (specifically at least... maybe I knew it in the back of my mind from long ago) that amino acids had already produced in experiments designed to replicate the supposed early conditions of earth. So here's me been waiting for something like that to happen... and it already has... sixty odd years ago but then I've always been a bit behind the times
You're still behind. Science no longer thinks that the Urey-Miller experiment replicated early conditions on earth.
But even if it had, it produced a few amino acids. Every day, millions of creatures die. They don't have a few amino acids, they have all the materials necessary for life. But, abiogenesis has never been observed on any of these. You could say that's because they get eaten. But, isolate them, and still - no life. Put them in a pool of water with whatever chemicals you lie and add heat to simulate the sun - still no life. Add electricity to simulate lightning - still, no life.
For you, time appears to be magic.
Quote:So the current state of research is presumably what you're talking about? ie the move from organic molecules to living cells? From what I gather, there are many competing theories, so despite your millions of negative results, if that's what you were referring to, it looks like a hot field with a lot of potential...
May competing theories means that not one of them has solid evidence. Why do you assign potential to such a situation?
Quote:and as far as I'm concerned... if amino acids have already been produced that way, there's every reason to be confident that the rest is just a matter of time.
Oh wow, you even confirmed the point. Time = magic.
(November 13, 2017 at 6:11 am)Mathilda Wrote: What???
That is entirely the opposite of Occam's razor.
Your argument can be paraphrased as:
'Occam's razor tells us that the explanation with the fewest assumptions should be selected so we should add an assumption.'
No, that's Occam's razor. Occam himself would have agreed with you. He thought that God couldn't be deduced by reason alone. And as noted above, that was a fair point as long as a steady-state or other eternal universe was still on the table. But now, with most of science agreeing that the universe had a beginning, you don't have an eternal universe, and an additional entity becomes necessary.