(November 13, 2017 at 8:26 pm)Whateverist Wrote:(November 13, 2017 at 8:16 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If I see Atheists properly understand my arguments and argue with me presenting them properly, I would not have this impression that the vocal Atheists here over all are not searching to know the truth or settle this dispute.
Guilty. I am not seeking to justify my rejection of the categorically supernatural. Nor am I seeking to settle any dispute between believers and nonbelievers. (Not my problem.)
However I admittedly hold the bias that the 'supernatural' is an unnecessary category and an empty set. I don't have any proof for that position nor do I think it needs any. For my part, I'm willing to accept only so much agreement as is already there on the matter. I don't need to persuade you that I'm right about this. But it is an important difference between us in terms of how we see the world. It doesn't mean I can't share the world with you or that I think you and your side are all pathological. That so many on your side of the divide to feel compelled to persuade us that it is important and urgent to join you does worry me and can get in the way of our having much to do with each other.
Yes but you admit it. Unlike so many others who make it as if they reflected deeply about this subject and know there are no proofs.
And your stance is the stance I believe would be rational if Atheism were true. There is no beautiful ultimate truth in Atheism.
The others are like people who refuse to answer an exam but are frustrated with all the answers on exams because none of them appear to be perfect to them.
All religions have good answers. Hinduism emphasized on answers Christianity and Islam did little to. The native mythology about animals is important or else we cannot justify morality at all and it proves God in many ways, even if there inaccuracies in their mythology, the over all structure and wisdom is true.
The unnamed one the highest sky, etc...
So what if even they get most of the answers wrong or most essential answers wrong, they attempted to answer.
And of course various religions give people opportunity to search for wisdom in different answers out there, but the problem is when we limit all knowledge to bunch of clergy.
And we all hate that type religion, Atlas hates it, I hate it, I am not sure if the Christian here do, but I imagine they do as well.
We can't limit the truth to a group of people.
And what Atheists have right and is right, is the need of evidence and proof for religion and the identity of God which religious people hardly care for mixing falsehood with it.
But following things with proof is a virtue and following without proofs is a vice - yet - the worse is when something is proven beyond doubt and we become hateful towards it.
No doubt there is a time for doubts, there is time for questioning, but there is time for listening, and there is also a time to a take leap of vision, take that leap that testifies to what we know.
Unfortunately, people loving the state of doubt, will take their doubt as some sort of resembling to nature to truth. Not knowing something can never be called enlightenment.