(November 14, 2017 at 12:28 pm)SteveII Wrote:(November 14, 2017 at 8:05 am)Mathilda Wrote: To explain, I am saying that that your god does not exist, not that children are taught that your god is non-existent.
Isn't it the typical Christian belief that only God can truly pass judgment?
If so then a consequence of this is that everyone else's judgment is less important.
Here is your argument:
1. Only God can judge a person (as all your references point out, we are told not to judge other people because of xyz--only God has the ability/right)
2. [size=small]Therefore the consequence of our actions are irrelevant
Maybe you should actually read what I say because that is not my argument at all. Why would i argue that if I also state that your god does not exist?
(November 14, 2017 at 12:28 pm)SteveII Wrote:(November 14, 2017 at 8:05 am)Mathilda Wrote: You are conflating religious indoctrination with how you raise children. I am specifically referring to religious indoctrination. Most christians do not raise their children solely through religious indoctrination. Although we do see horrendous cases when parents actually do. Your very argument is that "99% of childhood moral guidelines are exactly the same as a non-religious family", which means that your objection is irrelevant because I specifically referred to religious conditioning.
The title of this thread is Theism is Childish. Then you said "Religious conditioning from birth essentially stops the maturation process." Now you are trying to hide behind a new term: indoctrination. Then you say that "Most christians do not raise their children solely through religious indoctrination". The backpedaling is impressive. So now we are talking about a thing that rarely happens? That seems to terminally undermine your premise.
No, i am singling out religious indoctrination / conditioning. I use the words indoctrination and conditioning interchangeably. Is this wrong?
I also stated that when parents do raise their children solely via religious indoctrination / conditioning that the results are generally horrendous,.
You are the one making a strawman argument by conflating raising a child and specific religious indoctrination when I have only ever tried to characterise how religious conditioning / indoctrination arrests a child's development in specific ways,
(November 14, 2017 at 12:28 pm)SteveII Wrote: First, you have failed to link why adhering to a standard moral code is inferior to reasoning into one. I would argue from a societal standpoint, that a well-structured moral code is way superior to having everyone reason out their own.
Because morality changes over time as society progresses. If we only ever adopt the morality that we have been taught then society cannot progress. After all, there are many moral codes in the bible that are now completely ignored and are seen as barbaric.
(November 14, 2017 at 12:28 pm)SteveII Wrote: Second, adherence to any moral code is still a choice.
But this is not the aim of religious indoctrination, which tries to set a child's moral code for life. This is why children are prime targets.
(November 14, 2017 at 12:28 pm)SteveII Wrote: Third, we are talking about a moral code that most of the world agrees with 95%-
Really? So the moral code in the bible such as marrying your rape victim, keeping slaves, mutilating women etc you are saying that 95% of the world agree with that? Or has morality evolved since the bible was written? If so then you have the reason why everyone has to evaluate their own moral code.,
(November 14, 2017 at 12:28 pm)SteveII Wrote: Fourth, you have failed to make the connection to why someone who adheres to such a moral code is immature/pitiful/contemptuous.
I never said that. I said that religious indoctrination stops the maturing process which involves developing your own moral code. Many people consider such neglect to be akin to child abuse. That at least deserves pity. I only said that I have contempt for the converts who give up trying and take the blue pill when they know better, much in the same way that some people sign away their freedoms for some imagined evil or don't care what their government does to allow them to live in relative luxury. And the reason I have contempt, as I stated, is because we can only make the world a better place if we all work at it together. People who take the benefit of an improved society without trying to make the world a better place themselves are freeloaders.
(November 14, 2017 at 12:28 pm)SteveII Wrote:(November 14, 2017 at 8:05 am)Mathilda Wrote: You really think so? You don't think that part of growing up means independently deciding these things for yourself? I take it then that you still have the exact same values as your parents, and your grandparents, and their parents etc ...
Sure, I am the son of a pastor and I don't have the same exact values as my parents. Seem like I did independently decide things for myself in spite of the "religious conditioning". My brother walked away from it all. Seem my personal examples undermine your premise.
But as I keep stating, i am only talking about the intended effect of religious conditioning, not how successful it is.